One complaint I've often seen from Christians is that atheists--particularly the so-called "New Atheists"--are rude, disrespectful, and stereotype Christians. Supposedly, a lot of atheists would rather flame you than argue with you, and are inconsistent with their self-proclaimed intellectualism by resorting to insults and smears instead of logic. Let's look at this.
First off, it needs to be said that most Christians don't know how to argue. This itself stems from a basic inability to reason. Here's a secret; do you want to know the foundation of all civilized conversation? Context. Simple context. When someone makes a point, it is logical and mature to address that point. This is how scientists, engineers, doctors, historians, martial artists and other experts converse with each other over ideas. However, when you fail to address that point and either A), make something up that your colleague/opponent did not say, and claim that they said it, or B), take something they did say out of context--i.e., "I accept evolution," "Well, accepting evolution makes you racist, because Darwin was racist"--you have failed the debate and conceded defeat. Why? Because both of the aforementioned tactics are illogical, immature, and worse, dishonest. If you can't be honest, then there's no point in talking to you, because you won't admit that you're wrong, regardless of what the other person says. This stupid, immature, and dishonest behavior is known by many names, but "faith" is the most common one. Here's an example of Christian "reasoning" at work. Below is the exchange between an atheist and a Christian in the comments section of a video covering C.S. Lewis' arguments on free will and determinism.
[The Judeo-Christian god is self refuting. Any being which is omniscient
and omnipotent could conceive of and create a universe where free will
existed and evil did not. If you say that god was required to include
evil in this universe then you are saying that he is not all powerful or
not smart enough to figure out a way to make it that did not require
it. Just because you can't conceive of a way to do it doesn't mean an
omniscient being couldn't.
Wednesday, December 12, 2012
Saturday, October 27, 2012
Historical Revision and You; or, Why America is Not a "Christian Nation"
With the presidential election heating up, both sides of the political spectrum are hunkered down in the trenches, regurgitating party lines and doing their best to convince independents and undecided to vote for one guy of the other. Now, I live in west Texas, one of the most conservative parts of the country. And one thing that I keep hearing repeated on radio and from people I encounter at college is that this is a "Christian nation", founded by Christian men on Christian values for Christians. Which is bullshit. Look people, it's okay to be proud of your faith, but it's quite another to go around trying to take credit for stuff that your religion had little or nothing to do with. Like founding Western Civilization of the scientific method. If the Constitution is based upon Christian values, please cite any and all biblical references within it and provide evidence that things like free speech, equality, and equal representation were pioneered only by Christians, and never existed before that religion did (hint; the Greeks invented democracy). If it is framed upon one of the chapters of law in Deuteronomy as some claim, please post the chapter and verse. Otherwise, shut the fuck up and stop trying to force your religious beliefs into state affairs. It's funny how if Muslims or Hindus tried that shit, Christians, like the rest of us, would be up in arms, and rightfully so. But when you guys try it, we're all commies and traitors if we contradict your historical revision that is actively dumbing down the population. Most of the Founders were Christians, yet the most influential ones were Freemasons and Deists. Most, if not all of them were united in the opinion that state and church were separate spheres that should not meet, and that everyone had the right to believe what they wanted without persecution of either the government or private interests. So stop trying to screw around with everyone else. And no, I'm not generalizing about all Christians, since a lot of them are thankfully smarter than this.
Saturday, October 20, 2012
BANNED LIKE A BOSS
A couple weeks ago, I went back to playing Dead Frontier, an online Zombie MMOG (Massively Multiplayer Online Game). Soon, I started posting on the forums there, which are pretty cool. There's a section for every topic, but it didn't take long for me to start frequenting "Serious Discussion", where everything from history to philosophy is discussed. I posted on several topics, and even started two threads. The first one was, "Was the Iraq War Justified?". That turned out pretty well, I think. The second one was, "Intelligent Design vs Young Earth Creationism". Long story short; a creationist bitch calling himself "I AM SCREWED" showed up and started trolling with idiotic logical fallacies. Here is his first post and my replies that were posted on the thread. This will be pretty long, so you may want to skip to the end.
"Wow this thread didn't start out a bit biased. lol."
Creationism: 6,000 years ago, a genocidal cosmic bigot created everything. Mankind was made of dust and magical breath. The fossil record was all laid down by a global flood roughly 4,000 years ago, even though there's no evidence in the rock record to back that up and this same flood, which supposedly wiped out mankind, had no impact on the ancient Chinese, Greeks, or Egyptians, or any other ancient culture of that time period.
Intelligent Design: an unfalsifiable being created everything. While the earth is old just like science has proven it to be, evolution does not explain the complexity of life, since everything must have an inspired origin. Just don't ask us who created the Creator, or we'll get pissy and throw logical fallacies at you.
"Anyway, I believe that everything and everyone was created by God. I just don't see how evolution would make any sense. If we had been evolving for millions/billions of years, how come humans, who supposedly adapted to this amazing body from some primordial goo how many years ago, haven't continued to adapt to their surroundings?"
We have and we are. But because we have no real competition, the adaptations occurring are slow, and won't have any real affects on us for thousands or even millions of years, depending upon environmental changes.
"People can still die of heat stroke, or freeze to death in not very extreme conditions. You would think that over that many millions and billions of years while we were growing into humans, we might have also adjusted to the elements. We had long enough."
You obviously don't understand how evolution works. This isn't X-Men. You can't magically adapt to every possible condition. In order for cockroaches and salamanders to adapt to cave environments, they lost all sense of sight and pigmentation, since you don't need camouflage in pitch black. Evolution is an adaptation to the environment, nothing more. And it doesn't happen in the space of a single generation, but in hundreds or thousands. The more pressure an organism has to adapt from predation or sexual pressures, the faster it does so. Or it goes extinct.
"Also, how come we don't have partial humans walking out of the ocean or jungles? Did the earth run out of the natural ingredients after it thought there were enough people?"
That doesn't even make sense.
"How come some evolved with the ability to produce eggs and one evolved being able to fertilize those eggs?"
Different environmental pressures. Different mutations. Take your pick.
"Evolution is a theory created for people who don't want to believe that there is a God or being powerful enough to create life from will, because people hate to feel small and helpless."
And here I was hoping that this thread would be stupidity-free. Let's cut the bullshit. Evolution is not a theory created by people who don't want to believe in god. Charles Darwin set it forth to explain biological diversity and the emergence of desirable traits that are passed down. Evolution has been proven. Insects and rodents have been observed in nature to adapt to powerful pesticides. In the 1990s, Professor Richard Lenski and his team of researchers conducted an experiment in which a strain of E. Coli mutated the ability to metabolize citrate, something that was unheard of at the time. And in an evolutionary world, we are small. You're the one who thinks some god created us for a divine purpose. Just because you don't know anything about evolution doesn't mean you get to make up shit about it. This is Serious Discussions, so leave the Ad Hominem attacks at the door. If you can't argue against something without invoking logical fallacies, don't argue at all.
That was the first exchange. Here's the rest;
"Evolution: There was nothing, then some gas floated into the nothing, then it all blew up and planets started popping up out of nowhere."
You were homeschooled, weren't you? That's the Big Bang theory, not evolution. So, FAIL.
"After these planets had all popped up, only one was able to magically produce life."
This is why creationism is stupid. First off, in order to form life as we know it, you need proteins and amino acids. No magic about it. Secondly, the universe in infinite, so for all we know, there could could be countless lifeforms in other galaxies. Some scientists also think that life started in other parts of our solar system, like Mars, but died out. Thirdly, you've manged to not only convey in one paragraph that you literally don't know shit about evolution, but that you also don't know anything about the Big Bang, or Abiogenesis. And on top of that, you manged to take three utterly distinct theories and mash them together. I don't whether to laugh or weep for the future.
"This unexplained living things suddenly began changing, and over millions and billions of years (during which other planets just didn't get lucky with life) they changed into all these different species. Even the ones who evolved in the same location. Some became frogs, some birds, some humans, some pigs. Isn't that cool."
Look up sympatric and allopatric speciation, then get back to me. M'kay?
"Seriously? You think evolution is the best theory? I could make up a better theory in about 5 minutes."
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAH!!!
"You also apparently haven't noticed that many scientific finds are disproving evolution timelines, such as mass bone yards, finding human and dinosaur footprints at the same level in rock, etc."
Mass bone yards don't disprove evolution. Ever hear of mass extinctions, disasters? And human tracks have never been found on the same level as dinosaur tracks. That's an old hoax, and it's pretty sad that people still fall for it.
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/paluxy/onheel.html
"Adapting to temperatures would be like X-Men, yet you want people to believe that we just adapted and evolved eyes, hearts, lungs, the digestive system, the reproductive system, etc. That seems pretty damn magical to me."
Coming from someone who invokes logical fallacies and doesn't seem to know anything about the theory he's disputing, this doesn't surprise me. Tell me, how is that any more "magical" than an uncaused omnipotent agent magically poofing everything into existence with magic words?
"Yeah actually it does. if humans evolved, than they would have kept being created over the years. You think there was just one period of time where humans popped up and then they stopped? That doesn't sound like evolving to me."
Life first originated in the Archean. Conditions on earth were different back then.
http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/precambrian/archean_hadean.php
After life formed and started changing, global conditions changed and the situation under which life came about no longer existed. That is probably why no new life formed after that period. However, primordial conditions can be found in certain lakes and parts of the ocean. Here, modern day Archeans can be found, bacteria capable of existing under conditions that no other form of life could survive. http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/archaea/archaea.html
"Take my pick? I thought evolution was proven science, not a guessing game. Either they know what happened or not. I want proof."
Since this all happened millions of years ago, it can be difficult to determine through the fossil record exactly what catalyst sparked an adaption. Sometimes, it's environmental. Sometimes, it's due to predation by other species. Sometimes, it's sexual pressure. It's impossible to know every cause, though. All we can do is narrow it down to a list of possibilities. This doesn't mean that the entire theory is wrong because they can't always tell what happened, though. Creationists can't explain anything at all; their answer to every question is the same vague bullshit: "Goddidit".
"Charles Darwin. Because he says we all evolved, it must be true."
This is why creationists have reputations as cowardly, dishonest buffoons. Write two paragraphs explaining how evolution works, and they cherry-pick the first sentence, take it out of context, and use that as the basis of a straw-man argument.
In response to the rest; http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/10/041030215105.htm
Now, if you bother to post again, let's see you first respond to the entirety of my post regarding proof of evolution instead of the first sentence, and come up with a thoroughly-researched theory that is better than evolution via natural selection in five minutes flat. You're on the clock. And if you invoke any more fallacies, I'm flagging you.
"Which is one of the main attempts to explain how the world came into being, without which there would be no evolution argument, that is why it matters."
No. Not even close. There are no words to describe this kind of ignorance. For starters, the Big Bang theory wasn't set forth until 1927. Charles Darwin and Alfred Russel Wallace published their papers in 1858. Evolution doesn't depend upon the big bang any more than common descent depends upon abiogenesis.
"That conveniently mixed juuust right. Only in the right place...at the right time...and it happened millions of years ago so we don't have to explain how."
Look up the Miller experiment. Amino acids and proteins are the building blocks of DNA, and thus, life. And abiogenesis actually attempts to provide answers, instead of asserting that a magical sky man magically created everything, which is unfalsifiable and therefore nonsense.
"Key word is think. They have absolutely no idea really."
Actually, they've seen signs of water on Mars. Some scientists think microscopic organisms are responsible for methane hazes on the surface, but they won't know until we've explored it more thoroughly.
"Well in ways it does because they have found bones of animals they thought lived millions of years apart together. And the only people who call it a hoax are the ones who don't like how it contradicts their theory."
You sir, are an idiot. You keep repeating the same bullshit over and over, but you still haven't cited any sources whatsoever. Furthermore, the dino/human tracks are a fucking hoax. Of course you didn't even bother to read the link I posted, or cite a specific example, so now you've reverted to saying, "herp derp, the only people who use their brains and call a hoax a hoax are the ones who don't like how it contradicts their theory" instead of actually posting a semi-intelligent argument. Also, that was an Ad Hominem. I am reporting you.
"You would call any disagreement a logical fallacy, so I guess you got me there, but you didn't answer my question on how adapting to temperature was so hard compared to growing into entirely new creatures."
Because temperatures vary. And yes, organisms have adapted to temperatures. To a lesser extent, so have humans. Some races are more well adapted to cold or hot or tropical zones. They also tend to have immunity to local diseases.
"So what is happening with them now? Put it in an incubator and wait?"
Scientists have already bred new strains of them, I think, and are in the process of observing how each generation adapts.
"Exactly. You have no more idea than anyone else in other words."
Obviously, you have never heard of probability.
"And why does it bother you that someone would say "Goddidit"?"
Because that's not even an answer. I could say "The magical flying invisible pixie did it" and it would hold just as weight. Science looks for answers; religion just makes them up.
"You can't explain it, scientists can't explain it, and the Bible is full of much older theories of life that can't be disproved, yet they are all out the door?"
Science already has explained it. Your "logic" consists of this; "herp derp, if scientists can't say with 100% certainty that they know EVERY little thing that ever occurred in the history of life on earth, then the entire theory of evolution is worthless". Which is pretty typical of creationists in it's breathtaking ignorance of the scientific method and overall stupidity. At this point, the fossil record is more than sufficient to prove that life has evolved. And even without that, science could still make devastating arguments from microbiology, like that E. Coli experiment I mentioned. Which I'm guessing you didn't even bother to look up, did you?
"My theory is that humans and animals are part of an alien breeding program. This is a big farm. There are ancient sculptures of flying saucers and drawings of men in space suits to prove it. I dare anyone to prove me wrong."
No physical evidence, no citations, no research, no nothing. FAIL.
"As for your favorite word "fallacies", as with most evolutionists, you started the thread with the mindset that you're right and everyone else is stupid, so anything that you can't explain is a fallacy. There wasn't a shred of proof in the post, so no need to go over the "proof"."
Between the two of us, I'm the only one to post any evidence, which you attempted to dismiss out of hand with a retarded ad hominem. Also, I did NOT start this thread with the mindset that everyone else was stupid; Bertha and Doc Roe are intelligent people who don't agree with me 100%. The only stupid one here is you.
"This is a great example of how brainwashed people are nowadays. They eat the same shit over and over until it sounds good."
You have failed to make one good argument in this entire thread. Everything you've said translates to "duh, I don't know how this works, so it's wrong, dur". You're the one who has used logical fallacies like ad hominems, straw-men, and god of the gaps from your first post. You're the one who knows nothing about how evolution works, and yet, you actually think you know more than 150 years worth of scientists; you, who can't even tell the difference between physics and biology, per your conflation of BB and TOE. Don't even try to project your own stupidity onto me. The only brainwashed person here is the idiot who thinks ancient myths are superior to peer-reviewed facts.
"If you want to make an anti-all other views thread and have no one argue, I suggest finding a nice evolution forum. That way you can spew this crap and everyone will agree. I actually believe in adaptation of animals, but the levels of evolving that "science" suggests is just another way of admitting they have no idea."
You are so fucking stupid that I feel sorry for you. Again, saying that a theory is crap because there are gaps while completely avoiding the fact that most of it has been proven is to admit that you are stupid, ignorant, immature, and unfit to take part in serious conversation. And like the cowardly fraud you are, you've still avoided addressing the examples I posted earlier, which just proves that creationists have no moral or intellectual fiber. In short, you've wasted my time with your petulance.
"Last but not least, your sad attempt to paint people who disagree with you in a poor light is that they are ignorant and just don't understand evolution, therefore they are stupid and wrong. Well, you're just ignorant and don't understand the concept of God, so it's evolution. See how that works two ways?"
You are ignorant. If you knew enough about evolution to pass a freshman course in geology, you wouldn't have asked all the stupid questions you did. You also wouldn't be avoiding my arguments from earlier. And as both Vengeance and I have already pointed out, evolution does not rule out God. Only stupid, dishonest creationists fall for that line. But this is what brainwashed people are like.
"There's my post of "logical fallacies", have fun flagging since that is what you have to hide behind since you don't like opposition."
This from the coward who still hides from my previous arguments. Hey, if evolution is "crap", you should've been able to refute them. But you're a stupid kid, so I wasn't expecting much in the first place. Now I'll let Xaelath deal with your sorry hide.
So there is it is. I posted this last night, flagged I AM STUPID's bullshit, and when I logged it to the game this morning to try out my new chainsaw, there was a red box across the top of my screen saying this;
"Sorry Captain Rhodes, you are banned from posting or sending personal messages on this forum.
So I clicked on the thread to see what happened. The moderator was a Jesus freak. But first, I AM RETARDED's final reply.
"I'm not even going to bother quoting that novel of shit."
This from the retard whose standard of shit is anything he doesn't understand. Oh, the irony.
"I find it interesting though how when challenged all people like you can fall back on is "you're stupid", "you're ignorant", "you're a coward." Seriously? How mature.
Bitch, please. You see what I mean, people? Creationists are scum. They dismiss your arguments, argue from ignorance (which by itself is an admission of stupidity), use childish logical fallacies, ignore most of your posts, and then try to act like you're the one doing that and not them. They are truly the lowest of the low.
"I'm actually quite intelligent and on the honor roll in my college. From what I can tell, you're probably on a middle school debate team and trying to get practice. They should have taught you that repeating yourself over and over again and calling people names isn't the way to prove anything.
"
This is one of the biggest twats I've ever had the misfortune of wasting so much as one word on. How can you prove you're on the honor roll? Oh, that's right; you can't. Secondly, you have failed to post one citation for any of your claims. Thirdly, it's funny how you try to talk down to me and say I'm probably on a middle school debate team. Imbecile, you're too stupid to know what a logical fallacy is. You've used straw-men and ad hominems, but seemed unable to understand what that meant when I pointed it out. You can try to hide the truth all you want, but the fact is, you got your ass handed to you in this thread, and in a real live debate before a live audience, you would have been booed out the door after your first "argument". If one can drag the word through the muck by associating it with your rambling, ignorant, drivel. Oh, and idiot? You were the one repeating yourself over and over. I said something different in each post. All you did was continue to argue from ignorance, which is an admission of stupidity, no more, no less. Without citations. So you've already lost the debate, conceded that creationism is wrong and is reserved exclusively for morons like yourself, and that you are intellectually and ethically inferior to me.
"Do you really think posting links to random stories is proof?"
Because evidence backing up my arguments are just "random stories".
Dumbass, by not referencing any evidence, you have failed and conceded your inferiority. By attempting to dismiss evidence out of hand without even responding to it, you have proven yourself to be the spineless suck-ass pussy and egregious fraud that I always suspected you to be.
"There's scientists who believe creation, there's scientists that call it a farce. It all depends on who you read. If you rely on what others say for your beliefs I am truly sorry for you. It goes to show how shallow we as people have become when we have to look to peers and scientists to make us feel smart."
There is no depth that creationists won't sink to. Really. I showed that I actually understand evolution; the links were just evidence in case somebody asked me to back up my statements. But being a worthless, subhuman twat, I AM RETARDED actually tries to twist it around and make it look like I didn't know what was I was talking about and was basing everything upon other people's opinions. Despite the fact that anyone who is in college and doesn't know what evidence is or how it applies to debates is either mentally retarded or lying. He's probably a pimply-faced junior high student. Shallow? You pathetic troll, you argue on the level of a third-grader, and even that is being generous. And BTW, only pseudo-scientists endorse creationism. That is obvious to non-brainwashed people. And non-retarded people.
"The only thing I have seen you post, in a nutshell is this: "Evolution is the only possible theory, because these scientists say so. oh and you're stupid because you think it's wrong."'
No, fuckwit, I've been saying that evolution is a fact because it's been proven. It has evidence, none of which you have even attempted to refute, being the dishonest coward you are.And where you are concerned, I've been saying that you are stupid because you not don't know anything about evolution, but refuse to educate yourself on that subject. Willful ignorance is the worst kind of ignorance; it's even worse than honest stupidity. And you've put zero effort into this debate. You run and hide from my arguments, responding only to individual sentences, and you ignore my links, which not only demeans the entire forum and everyone on it, but also exposes you as a sad, childish little attention troll. If there had been any actual moderation, you would have been warned, and banned if you continued to post garbage on the same developmental level as a five year-old.
"You want facts, I want facts. I can't prove creation, you (or anyone else) can't prove evolution."
More bullshit. Moron, before you can say that evolution can't be proven, you have to grow a pair, and go try to refute the evidence for yourself. Which you have steadfastly avoided, like the coward you are.That's a Tu Quoque fallacy and a false dichotomy all in one. Yeah I know, such big, confusing words.
"Science (from Latin scientia, meaning "knowledge") is a systematic enterprise that builds and organizes knowledge in the form of testable explanations and predictions about the universe. In an older and closely related meaning (found, for example, in Aristotle), "science" refers to the body of reliable knowledge itself, of the type that can be logically and rationally explained."
And your point here is...?
"Therefore, evolution isn't science. There is no way to test what happened in the past, you yourself have said that. There is no reliable knowledge supporting the claims, just a pile of maybes and what ifs. How many times have they claimed to have found the "missing link" and been found to be hoaxes?"
First off, fucktard, I did not say that there is "no way to test what happened in the past". You, sir, are a fucking liar of the worst sort and you are utterly beneath contempt. If there is no way to test what happened in the past, how do you explain geologists ability to predict where oil is? To predict where they'll find fossils? Magic? I wouldn't put it past you. And of course, you avoid isotopic dating. As for the rest of you drivel, it's what I've come to expect from creation-tards. More "herp derp, if science makes a mistake, it's not science, herp derp". Go die in a fire.
"Have fun playing scientist in candy land."
Have fun being a lying piece of shit who loses every debate and just can't stand the truth about himself. Maybe if you're lucky, Ken Ham will hire you to work at hisdismal roadside attraction Creation "Museum".
The moderator was one "Buford83". He banned me from the forum for three days. The charge; flaming.
"You can't reason with some people, Doc. With everything as perfect as it is around us, with how life is in general and all of the complexities and improbabilities that come along with it, I don't understand how people don't believe in God, but there's no reason to debate with some of these people. Debates like this on an internet board rarely change anything and I've already dealt with enough ignorant, hot-headed assholes on Dead Frontier."
Look at this. I and a couple other posters already explained complexity, and he just brushes right over it like the cowardly fraud he is. Incredible. And bitch, flaming is defined on the Internet as insulting someone for no reason. I did not flame I.A.S. He earned his titles by arguing from logical fallacies over and over, without saying anything new and essentially trolling the thread, which is against the rules. But you just flamed me. Nice way to lead by example, you weak-minded fuck-brain.
"Since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities – his eternal power and divine nature – have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse." - Romans 1:20"
Circular logic. Translation; you are retarded, biased, and worthless, and are a disgrace to forum moderators everywhere. I win. Eat my shit, creationist losers. And the best part? I AM SCREWED didn't get banned. So you can violate the rules and troll on Buford Thundertwunt's watch so long as you're on his side.
THINGS I LEARNED.
I didn't really learn anything from this debacle that I didn't already know, but this experience has reinforced that knowledge with a vengeance.
>Creationists will sink to every level possible. They are some of the worst wastes of carbon and oxygen to ever soil the ground with their footsteps.
>Buford83 is a biased hypocrite who doesn't deserve to be a mod.
>Both Buford and I AM SCREWED have admitted that they're inferior to me, and have conceded the debate.
>People who ignore your arguments, twist your words out of context, argue exclusively from ignorance and other fallacies, and project their own behavior onto you, deserve to have their legs broken.
>Evolution is still a fact, and only wretched religious morons deny that.
>Tu quoque is not a valid comeback, you dumb shits. Neither are any of these, which you kept using.
>Pretty much all creationists are thundertwunts.
"Wow this thread didn't start out a bit biased. lol."
Creationism: 6,000 years ago, a genocidal cosmic bigot created everything. Mankind was made of dust and magical breath. The fossil record was all laid down by a global flood roughly 4,000 years ago, even though there's no evidence in the rock record to back that up and this same flood, which supposedly wiped out mankind, had no impact on the ancient Chinese, Greeks, or Egyptians, or any other ancient culture of that time period.
Intelligent Design: an unfalsifiable being created everything. While the earth is old just like science has proven it to be, evolution does not explain the complexity of life, since everything must have an inspired origin. Just don't ask us who created the Creator, or we'll get pissy and throw logical fallacies at you.
"Anyway, I believe that everything and everyone was created by God. I just don't see how evolution would make any sense. If we had been evolving for millions/billions of years, how come humans, who supposedly adapted to this amazing body from some primordial goo how many years ago, haven't continued to adapt to their surroundings?"
We have and we are. But because we have no real competition, the adaptations occurring are slow, and won't have any real affects on us for thousands or even millions of years, depending upon environmental changes.
"People can still die of heat stroke, or freeze to death in not very extreme conditions. You would think that over that many millions and billions of years while we were growing into humans, we might have also adjusted to the elements. We had long enough."
You obviously don't understand how evolution works. This isn't X-Men. You can't magically adapt to every possible condition. In order for cockroaches and salamanders to adapt to cave environments, they lost all sense of sight and pigmentation, since you don't need camouflage in pitch black. Evolution is an adaptation to the environment, nothing more. And it doesn't happen in the space of a single generation, but in hundreds or thousands. The more pressure an organism has to adapt from predation or sexual pressures, the faster it does so. Or it goes extinct.
"Also, how come we don't have partial humans walking out of the ocean or jungles? Did the earth run out of the natural ingredients after it thought there were enough people?"
That doesn't even make sense.
"How come some evolved with the ability to produce eggs and one evolved being able to fertilize those eggs?"
Different environmental pressures. Different mutations. Take your pick.
"Evolution is a theory created for people who don't want to believe that there is a God or being powerful enough to create life from will, because people hate to feel small and helpless."
And here I was hoping that this thread would be stupidity-free. Let's cut the bullshit. Evolution is not a theory created by people who don't want to believe in god. Charles Darwin set it forth to explain biological diversity and the emergence of desirable traits that are passed down. Evolution has been proven. Insects and rodents have been observed in nature to adapt to powerful pesticides. In the 1990s, Professor Richard Lenski and his team of researchers conducted an experiment in which a strain of E. Coli mutated the ability to metabolize citrate, something that was unheard of at the time. And in an evolutionary world, we are small. You're the one who thinks some god created us for a divine purpose. Just because you don't know anything about evolution doesn't mean you get to make up shit about it. This is Serious Discussions, so leave the Ad Hominem attacks at the door. If you can't argue against something without invoking logical fallacies, don't argue at all.
That was the first exchange. Here's the rest;
"Evolution: There was nothing, then some gas floated into the nothing, then it all blew up and planets started popping up out of nowhere."
You were homeschooled, weren't you? That's the Big Bang theory, not evolution. So, FAIL.
"After these planets had all popped up, only one was able to magically produce life."
This is why creationism is stupid. First off, in order to form life as we know it, you need proteins and amino acids. No magic about it. Secondly, the universe in infinite, so for all we know, there could could be countless lifeforms in other galaxies. Some scientists also think that life started in other parts of our solar system, like Mars, but died out. Thirdly, you've manged to not only convey in one paragraph that you literally don't know shit about evolution, but that you also don't know anything about the Big Bang, or Abiogenesis. And on top of that, you manged to take three utterly distinct theories and mash them together. I don't whether to laugh or weep for the future.
"This unexplained living things suddenly began changing, and over millions and billions of years (during which other planets just didn't get lucky with life) they changed into all these different species. Even the ones who evolved in the same location. Some became frogs, some birds, some humans, some pigs. Isn't that cool."
Look up sympatric and allopatric speciation, then get back to me. M'kay?
"Seriously? You think evolution is the best theory? I could make up a better theory in about 5 minutes."
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAH!!!
"You also apparently haven't noticed that many scientific finds are disproving evolution timelines, such as mass bone yards, finding human and dinosaur footprints at the same level in rock, etc."
Mass bone yards don't disprove evolution. Ever hear of mass extinctions, disasters? And human tracks have never been found on the same level as dinosaur tracks. That's an old hoax, and it's pretty sad that people still fall for it.
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/paluxy/onheel.html
"Adapting to temperatures would be like X-Men, yet you want people to believe that we just adapted and evolved eyes, hearts, lungs, the digestive system, the reproductive system, etc. That seems pretty damn magical to me."
Coming from someone who invokes logical fallacies and doesn't seem to know anything about the theory he's disputing, this doesn't surprise me. Tell me, how is that any more "magical" than an uncaused omnipotent agent magically poofing everything into existence with magic words?
"Yeah actually it does. if humans evolved, than they would have kept being created over the years. You think there was just one period of time where humans popped up and then they stopped? That doesn't sound like evolving to me."
Life first originated in the Archean. Conditions on earth were different back then.
http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/precambrian/archean_hadean.php
After life formed and started changing, global conditions changed and the situation under which life came about no longer existed. That is probably why no new life formed after that period. However, primordial conditions can be found in certain lakes and parts of the ocean. Here, modern day Archeans can be found, bacteria capable of existing under conditions that no other form of life could survive. http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/archaea/archaea.html
"Take my pick? I thought evolution was proven science, not a guessing game. Either they know what happened or not. I want proof."
Since this all happened millions of years ago, it can be difficult to determine through the fossil record exactly what catalyst sparked an adaption. Sometimes, it's environmental. Sometimes, it's due to predation by other species. Sometimes, it's sexual pressure. It's impossible to know every cause, though. All we can do is narrow it down to a list of possibilities. This doesn't mean that the entire theory is wrong because they can't always tell what happened, though. Creationists can't explain anything at all; their answer to every question is the same vague bullshit: "Goddidit".
"Charles Darwin. Because he says we all evolved, it must be true."
This is why creationists have reputations as cowardly, dishonest buffoons. Write two paragraphs explaining how evolution works, and they cherry-pick the first sentence, take it out of context, and use that as the basis of a straw-man argument.
In response to the rest; http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/10/041030215105.htm
Now, if you bother to post again, let's see you first respond to the entirety of my post regarding proof of evolution instead of the first sentence, and come up with a thoroughly-researched theory that is better than evolution via natural selection in five minutes flat. You're on the clock. And if you invoke any more fallacies, I'm flagging you.
"Which is one of the main attempts to explain how the world came into being, without which there would be no evolution argument, that is why it matters."
No. Not even close. There are no words to describe this kind of ignorance. For starters, the Big Bang theory wasn't set forth until 1927. Charles Darwin and Alfred Russel Wallace published their papers in 1858. Evolution doesn't depend upon the big bang any more than common descent depends upon abiogenesis.
"That conveniently mixed juuust right. Only in the right place...at the right time...and it happened millions of years ago so we don't have to explain how."
Look up the Miller experiment. Amino acids and proteins are the building blocks of DNA, and thus, life. And abiogenesis actually attempts to provide answers, instead of asserting that a magical sky man magically created everything, which is unfalsifiable and therefore nonsense.
"Key word is think. They have absolutely no idea really."
Actually, they've seen signs of water on Mars. Some scientists think microscopic organisms are responsible for methane hazes on the surface, but they won't know until we've explored it more thoroughly.
"Well in ways it does because they have found bones of animals they thought lived millions of years apart together. And the only people who call it a hoax are the ones who don't like how it contradicts their theory."
You sir, are an idiot. You keep repeating the same bullshit over and over, but you still haven't cited any sources whatsoever. Furthermore, the dino/human tracks are a fucking hoax. Of course you didn't even bother to read the link I posted, or cite a specific example, so now you've reverted to saying, "herp derp, the only people who use their brains and call a hoax a hoax are the ones who don't like how it contradicts their theory" instead of actually posting a semi-intelligent argument. Also, that was an Ad Hominem. I am reporting you.
"You would call any disagreement a logical fallacy, so I guess you got me there, but you didn't answer my question on how adapting to temperature was so hard compared to growing into entirely new creatures."
Because temperatures vary. And yes, organisms have adapted to temperatures. To a lesser extent, so have humans. Some races are more well adapted to cold or hot or tropical zones. They also tend to have immunity to local diseases.
"So what is happening with them now? Put it in an incubator and wait?"
Scientists have already bred new strains of them, I think, and are in the process of observing how each generation adapts.
"Exactly. You have no more idea than anyone else in other words."
Obviously, you have never heard of probability.
"And why does it bother you that someone would say "Goddidit"?"
Because that's not even an answer. I could say "The magical flying invisible pixie did it" and it would hold just as weight. Science looks for answers; religion just makes them up.
"You can't explain it, scientists can't explain it, and the Bible is full of much older theories of life that can't be disproved, yet they are all out the door?"
Science already has explained it. Your "logic" consists of this; "herp derp, if scientists can't say with 100% certainty that they know EVERY little thing that ever occurred in the history of life on earth, then the entire theory of evolution is worthless". Which is pretty typical of creationists in it's breathtaking ignorance of the scientific method and overall stupidity. At this point, the fossil record is more than sufficient to prove that life has evolved. And even without that, science could still make devastating arguments from microbiology, like that E. Coli experiment I mentioned. Which I'm guessing you didn't even bother to look up, did you?
"My theory is that humans and animals are part of an alien breeding program. This is a big farm. There are ancient sculptures of flying saucers and drawings of men in space suits to prove it. I dare anyone to prove me wrong."
No physical evidence, no citations, no research, no nothing. FAIL.
"As for your favorite word "fallacies", as with most evolutionists, you started the thread with the mindset that you're right and everyone else is stupid, so anything that you can't explain is a fallacy. There wasn't a shred of proof in the post, so no need to go over the "proof"."
Between the two of us, I'm the only one to post any evidence, which you attempted to dismiss out of hand with a retarded ad hominem. Also, I did NOT start this thread with the mindset that everyone else was stupid; Bertha and Doc Roe are intelligent people who don't agree with me 100%. The only stupid one here is you.
"This is a great example of how brainwashed people are nowadays. They eat the same shit over and over until it sounds good."
You have failed to make one good argument in this entire thread. Everything you've said translates to "duh, I don't know how this works, so it's wrong, dur". You're the one who has used logical fallacies like ad hominems, straw-men, and god of the gaps from your first post. You're the one who knows nothing about how evolution works, and yet, you actually think you know more than 150 years worth of scientists; you, who can't even tell the difference between physics and biology, per your conflation of BB and TOE. Don't even try to project your own stupidity onto me. The only brainwashed person here is the idiot who thinks ancient myths are superior to peer-reviewed facts.
"If you want to make an anti-all other views thread and have no one argue, I suggest finding a nice evolution forum. That way you can spew this crap and everyone will agree. I actually believe in adaptation of animals, but the levels of evolving that "science" suggests is just another way of admitting they have no idea."
You are so fucking stupid that I feel sorry for you. Again, saying that a theory is crap because there are gaps while completely avoiding the fact that most of it has been proven is to admit that you are stupid, ignorant, immature, and unfit to take part in serious conversation. And like the cowardly fraud you are, you've still avoided addressing the examples I posted earlier, which just proves that creationists have no moral or intellectual fiber. In short, you've wasted my time with your petulance.
"Last but not least, your sad attempt to paint people who disagree with you in a poor light is that they are ignorant and just don't understand evolution, therefore they are stupid and wrong. Well, you're just ignorant and don't understand the concept of God, so it's evolution. See how that works two ways?"
You are ignorant. If you knew enough about evolution to pass a freshman course in geology, you wouldn't have asked all the stupid questions you did. You also wouldn't be avoiding my arguments from earlier. And as both Vengeance and I have already pointed out, evolution does not rule out God. Only stupid, dishonest creationists fall for that line. But this is what brainwashed people are like.
"There's my post of "logical fallacies", have fun flagging since that is what you have to hide behind since you don't like opposition."
This from the coward who still hides from my previous arguments. Hey, if evolution is "crap", you should've been able to refute them. But you're a stupid kid, so I wasn't expecting much in the first place. Now I'll let Xaelath deal with your sorry hide.
So there is it is. I posted this last night, flagged I AM STUPID's bullshit, and when I logged it to the game this morning to try out my new chainsaw, there was a red box across the top of my screen saying this;
"Sorry Captain Rhodes, you are banned from posting or sending personal messages on this forum.
Flaming - 3 Days
"I'm not even going to bother quoting that novel of shit."
This from the retard whose standard of shit is anything he doesn't understand. Oh, the irony.
"I find it interesting though how when challenged all people like you can fall back on is "you're stupid", "you're ignorant", "you're a coward." Seriously? How mature.
Bitch, please. You see what I mean, people? Creationists are scum. They dismiss your arguments, argue from ignorance (which by itself is an admission of stupidity), use childish logical fallacies, ignore most of your posts, and then try to act like you're the one doing that and not them. They are truly the lowest of the low.
"I'm actually quite intelligent and on the honor roll in my college. From what I can tell, you're probably on a middle school debate team and trying to get practice. They should have taught you that repeating yourself over and over again and calling people names isn't the way to prove anything.
"This is one of the biggest twats I've ever had the misfortune of wasting so much as one word on. How can you prove you're on the honor roll? Oh, that's right; you can't. Secondly, you have failed to post one citation for any of your claims. Thirdly, it's funny how you try to talk down to me and say I'm probably on a middle school debate team. Imbecile, you're too stupid to know what a logical fallacy is. You've used straw-men and ad hominems, but seemed unable to understand what that meant when I pointed it out. You can try to hide the truth all you want, but the fact is, you got your ass handed to you in this thread, and in a real live debate before a live audience, you would have been booed out the door after your first "argument". If one can drag the word through the muck by associating it with your rambling, ignorant, drivel. Oh, and idiot? You were the one repeating yourself over and over. I said something different in each post. All you did was continue to argue from ignorance, which is an admission of stupidity, no more, no less. Without citations. So you've already lost the debate, conceded that creationism is wrong and is reserved exclusively for morons like yourself, and that you are intellectually and ethically inferior to me.
"Do you really think posting links to random stories is proof?"
Because evidence backing up my arguments are just "random stories".
Dumbass, by not referencing any evidence, you have failed and conceded your inferiority. By attempting to dismiss evidence out of hand without even responding to it, you have proven yourself to be the spineless suck-ass pussy and egregious fraud that I always suspected you to be.
"There's scientists who believe creation, there's scientists that call it a farce. It all depends on who you read. If you rely on what others say for your beliefs I am truly sorry for you. It goes to show how shallow we as people have become when we have to look to peers and scientists to make us feel smart."
There is no depth that creationists won't sink to. Really. I showed that I actually understand evolution; the links were just evidence in case somebody asked me to back up my statements. But being a worthless, subhuman twat, I AM RETARDED actually tries to twist it around and make it look like I didn't know what was I was talking about and was basing everything upon other people's opinions. Despite the fact that anyone who is in college and doesn't know what evidence is or how it applies to debates is either mentally retarded or lying. He's probably a pimply-faced junior high student. Shallow? You pathetic troll, you argue on the level of a third-grader, and even that is being generous. And BTW, only pseudo-scientists endorse creationism. That is obvious to non-brainwashed people. And non-retarded people.
"The only thing I have seen you post, in a nutshell is this: "Evolution is the only possible theory, because these scientists say so. oh and you're stupid because you think it's wrong."'
No, fuckwit, I've been saying that evolution is a fact because it's been proven. It has evidence, none of which you have even attempted to refute, being the dishonest coward you are.And where you are concerned, I've been saying that you are stupid because you not don't know anything about evolution, but refuse to educate yourself on that subject. Willful ignorance is the worst kind of ignorance; it's even worse than honest stupidity. And you've put zero effort into this debate. You run and hide from my arguments, responding only to individual sentences, and you ignore my links, which not only demeans the entire forum and everyone on it, but also exposes you as a sad, childish little attention troll. If there had been any actual moderation, you would have been warned, and banned if you continued to post garbage on the same developmental level as a five year-old.
"You want facts, I want facts. I can't prove creation, you (or anyone else) can't prove evolution."
More bullshit. Moron, before you can say that evolution can't be proven, you have to grow a pair, and go try to refute the evidence for yourself. Which you have steadfastly avoided, like the coward you are.That's a Tu Quoque fallacy and a false dichotomy all in one. Yeah I know, such big, confusing words.
"Science (from Latin scientia, meaning "knowledge") is a systematic enterprise that builds and organizes knowledge in the form of testable explanations and predictions about the universe. In an older and closely related meaning (found, for example, in Aristotle), "science" refers to the body of reliable knowledge itself, of the type that can be logically and rationally explained."
And your point here is...?
"Therefore, evolution isn't science. There is no way to test what happened in the past, you yourself have said that. There is no reliable knowledge supporting the claims, just a pile of maybes and what ifs. How many times have they claimed to have found the "missing link" and been found to be hoaxes?"
First off, fucktard, I did not say that there is "no way to test what happened in the past". You, sir, are a fucking liar of the worst sort and you are utterly beneath contempt. If there is no way to test what happened in the past, how do you explain geologists ability to predict where oil is? To predict where they'll find fossils? Magic? I wouldn't put it past you. And of course, you avoid isotopic dating. As for the rest of you drivel, it's what I've come to expect from creation-tards. More "herp derp, if science makes a mistake, it's not science, herp derp". Go die in a fire.
"Have fun playing scientist in candy land."
Have fun being a lying piece of shit who loses every debate and just can't stand the truth about himself. Maybe if you're lucky, Ken Ham will hire you to work at his
The moderator was one "Buford83". He banned me from the forum for three days. The charge; flaming.
"You can't reason with some people, Doc. With everything as perfect as it is around us, with how life is in general and all of the complexities and improbabilities that come along with it, I don't understand how people don't believe in God, but there's no reason to debate with some of these people. Debates like this on an internet board rarely change anything and I've already dealt with enough ignorant, hot-headed assholes on Dead Frontier."
Look at this. I and a couple other posters already explained complexity, and he just brushes right over it like the cowardly fraud he is. Incredible. And bitch, flaming is defined on the Internet as insulting someone for no reason. I did not flame I.A.S. He earned his titles by arguing from logical fallacies over and over, without saying anything new and essentially trolling the thread, which is against the rules. But you just flamed me. Nice way to lead by example, you weak-minded fuck-brain.
"Since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities – his eternal power and divine nature – have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse." - Romans 1:20"
Circular logic. Translation; you are retarded, biased, and worthless, and are a disgrace to forum moderators everywhere. I win. Eat my shit, creationist losers. And the best part? I AM SCREWED didn't get banned. So you can violate the rules and troll on Buford Thundertwunt's watch so long as you're on his side.
THINGS I LEARNED.
I didn't really learn anything from this debacle that I didn't already know, but this experience has reinforced that knowledge with a vengeance.
>Creationists will sink to every level possible. They are some of the worst wastes of carbon and oxygen to ever soil the ground with their footsteps.
>Buford83 is a biased hypocrite who doesn't deserve to be a mod.
>Both Buford and I AM SCREWED have admitted that they're inferior to me, and have conceded the debate.
>People who ignore your arguments, twist your words out of context, argue exclusively from ignorance and other fallacies, and project their own behavior onto you, deserve to have their legs broken.
>Evolution is still a fact, and only wretched religious morons deny that.
>Tu quoque is not a valid comeback, you dumb shits. Neither are any of these, which you kept using.
>Pretty much all creationists are thundertwunts.
Wednesday, September 5, 2012
R.I.P., MICHAEL CLARKE DUNCAN
Dead of a heart attack at 54. This sucks ass. But it's life. Duncan was a great actor and an intimidating presence, with a voice that would give James Earl Jones a run for his money. He is most famous for playing John Coffey in Stephen King's "The Green Mile", but he had a bunch of other cool movies. Scorpion King was slightly better due to his presence. The rhino guard in Kung Fu Panda would not have been as awesome without his voice. And he made a great Kingpin in Dare Devil. There were a bunch of other movies, but I either haven't seen them yet or I can't remember their names. Rest in peace, man.
Saturday, August 25, 2012
THE TEXAS GOP SHOULD BE TRIED FOR TREASON
These worthless, subhuman fuck-puddles should be indicted for treason. Why, you ask. Why should such drastic steps be taken? Well, I'll tell you why. Because they want to lobotomize your kids into useful idiots for the Religious Reich.
Exhibit A in favor of their incarceration: http://www.tfn.org/site/DocServer/2012-Platform-Final.pdf?docID=3201
Here's a few quotes from their platform; "Controversial Theories – We support objective teaching and equal treatment of all sides of scientific theories. We believe theories such as life origins and environmental change should be taught as challengeable scientific theories subject to change as new data is produced. Teachers and students should be able to discuss the strengths and weaknesses of these theories openly and without fear of retribution or discrimination of any kind."
They already are, you retards. In my geology class, everyone could question the processes under discussion, which frequently included evolution. Nobody was ever shouted down, punished, threatened, or mocked; in fact, our professor, Phil, encouraged us to ask away. But of course, having probably never set foot in a college, what can you possibly know about it? And we all know that this is just a Trojan Horse for you morons to try and sneak creationism in on. But this is only the least of their assaults on logic, truth, and freedom.
"American Identity Patriotism and Loyalty – We believe the current teaching of a multicultural curriculum is divisive. We favor strengthening our common American identity and loyalty instead of political correctness that nurtures alienation among racial and ethnic groups. Students should pledge allegiance to the American and Texas flags daily to instill patriotism."
That's right! Who wants or needs to know about the million different times and ways we fucked over minorities in this country? This is AMER-RI-CUH!! WHITE FOLKS' SHIT DON'T STINK!! So, historical revision for political ends, which should automatically forfeit your right to existence in my book.
"Homosexuality ― We affirm that the practice of homosexuality tears at the fabric of society and contributes to the breakdown of the family unit. Homosexual behavior is contrary to the fundamental, unchanging truths that have been ordained by God, recognized by our country’s founders, and shared by the majority of Texans."
You know, the one central question I've always had in regards to homosexuality breaking down civilization,threatening traditional marriage, etc., is how? If gay marriage is made legal, how will it destroy society? This assertion is made by conservative Christians on a daily basis, and has been so for decades, and yet there's never been a single scrap of proof for it. Because hey, if theFuhrer All Mighty wants Jews homosexuals to be eradicated prohibited from marrying, who are we to question it or think about it? And yes, I broke Godwin's Law there, but it doesn't matter because the analogy is valid in this case.
"Family and Defense of Marriage ― We support the definition of marriage as a God-ordained, legal and moral commitment only between a natural man and a natural woman, which is the foundational unit of a healthy society, and we oppose the assault on marriage by judicial activists. We call on the President and Congress to take immediate action to defend the sanctity of marriage. We are resolute that Congress exercise authority under the United States Constitution, and pass legislation withholding jurisdiction from the Federal Courts in cases involving family law, especially any changes in the definition of marriage. We further call on Congress to pass and the state legislatures to ratify a marriage amendment declaring that marriage in the United States shall consist of and be recognized only as the union of a natural man and a natural woman. Neither the United States nor any state shall recognize or grant to any unmarried person the legal rights or status of a spouse. We oppose the recognition of and granting of benefits to people who represent themselves as domestic partners without being legally married. We advocate the repeal of laws that place an unfair tax burden on families. We call upon Congress to completely remove the marriage penalty in the tax code, whereby a married couple receives a smaller standard deduction than their unmarried counterparts living together. The primary family unit consists of those related by blood, heterosexual marriage, or adoption. The family is responsible for its own welfare, education, moral training, conduct, and property."
Submitted without comment.
"Pledge of Allegiance - We support adoption of the Pledge Protection Act. We also urge that the National Motto “In God We Trust” and National Anthem be protected from legislative and judicial attack."
That's not the national motto, you stupid douches. Our motto is "E Pluribis Unum", or "Many Out of One", so your fictional god can go fuck himself since he's a fascist, genocidal bigot whose values and personality as revealed in the old testament are utterly un-American and have far more in common with those of Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin, Mao Zedong, and other Narcissist megalomaniacs. Congratulations; you just failed American history. Tender your resignations,assholes. Seriously.
"Protection from Extreme Environmentalists – We strongly oppose all efforts of the extreme environmental groups that stymie legitimate business interests. We strongly oppose those efforts that attempt to use the environmental causes to purposefully disrupt and stop those interests within the oil and gas industry. We strongly support the immediate repeal of the Endangered Species Act. We strongly oppose the listing of the dune sage brush lizard either as a threatened or an endangered species. We believe the Environmental Protection Agency should be abolished."
Right, because it's not like we need an "ecosystem" or something, right? Right? And don't forget, with no E.P.A. (i.e., some kind of government agency regulating the environment and enforcing laws designed to keep the planet, and by extension, our species safe and healthy), massive corporations can dump toxic waste in streams and rivers, so next time you're out camping, you better not let little Timmy go for a dip, or his dick might fall off. Dipshits.
"Knowledge-Based Education – We oppose the teaching of Higher Order Thinking Skills (HOTS) (values clarification), critical thinking skills and similar programs that are simply a relabeling of Outcome-Based Education (OBE) (mastery learning) which focus on behavior modification and have the purpose of challenging the student’s fixed beliefs and undermining parental authority."
Translation: anything that makes your kids smarter and capable of thinking for themselves is to abolished and replaced with indoctrination that encourages blind, thoughtless acceptance of authority so that they'll do whatever we tell them to do and will make an excellent slave caste of useful idiots that has been intellectual castrated and thus poses no threat to us, and will make no protest as their rights are eroded and finally done away with altogether.
Everyone who signed to this should be taken out of office immediately. That Texans could even elect scum like this is mind-boggling.
Sex Education – We recognize parental responsibility and authority regarding sex education. We believe that parents must be given an opportunity to review the material prior to giving their consent. We oppose any sex education other than abstinence until marriage."
Despite the fact that abstinence only DOES NOT WORK. Mississippi has abstinence only sex ed, and guess what? They have the highest rates of teen pregnancy and abortion in the entire U.S. If you dildo lizards were genuinely "pro-life", and really wanted to end abortion, then you would pull your heads out of your asses and realize that safe sex is the ONLY working solution to teen pregnancy. People were having bastards in the 60s, 50s, 40s, 30s, and 20s, and have been having bastards since the dawn of time. The human sex drive is far stronger than any religion ever was, and cannot be denied. Unless you're willing to become a eunuch, or course, which I'll welcome in the case of everyone who signed this document.
"Traditional Principles in Education – We support school subjects with emphasis on the Judeo-Christian principles upon which America was founded and which form the basis of America’s legal, political and economic systems. We support curricula that are heavily weighted on original founding documents, including the Declaration of Independence, the US Constitution, and Founders’ writings."
You just failed American history... again. Our Constitution, which you mindless half-wits have been referencing throughout this dismal pit of anti-intellectual shit, is completely secular, and does not reference your shitty Christian death cult at any place. Since you are all ignorant, lying, retarded cunt monkeys, here is the preamble of the Constitution pasted for your reading pleasure, since any attempt to educate or enlighten you is doomed to fail;
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
"We the People...", I don't see anything about God, Jesus, the bible, or any other religious tripe. Then we have the No Religious Test Clause and the prohibitions placed on religion by the First Amendment; that Congress shall make no law respecting ANY establishment of religion. I know you don't care about the Constitution, or that is, any part that inconveniences your Dominionist agenda, but thankfully, this is not the Dark Ages, and we have a wall of separation between church and state.
"Safeguarding Our Religious Liberties – We affirm that the public acknowledgement of God is undeniable in our history and is vital to our freedom, prosperity and strength. We pledge our influence toward a return to the original intent of the First Amendment and toward dispelling the myth of separation of church and state. We urge the Legislature to increase the ability of faith-based institutions and other organizations to assist the needy and to reduce regulation of such organizations."
" Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State." --Thomas Jefferson, January 1st, 1802. [source]
"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion..." --Treaty of Tripoli, Article 11, 1796-1797. [source]
So, in this document, you have lied, distorted facts, and made clear your intentions to violate the rights of non-heterosexual citizens, revise American history for your own ends, alter the public education system in a blatantly un-Constitutional matter, and have conspired to commit treason against the United States in both word and deed. Anyone who votes for any of you is certifiably retarded.
Exhibit A in favor of their incarceration: http://www.tfn.org/site/DocServer/2012-Platform-Final.pdf?docID=3201
Here's a few quotes from their platform; "Controversial Theories – We support objective teaching and equal treatment of all sides of scientific theories. We believe theories such as life origins and environmental change should be taught as challengeable scientific theories subject to change as new data is produced. Teachers and students should be able to discuss the strengths and weaknesses of these theories openly and without fear of retribution or discrimination of any kind."
They already are, you retards. In my geology class, everyone could question the processes under discussion, which frequently included evolution. Nobody was ever shouted down, punished, threatened, or mocked; in fact, our professor, Phil, encouraged us to ask away. But of course, having probably never set foot in a college, what can you possibly know about it? And we all know that this is just a Trojan Horse for you morons to try and sneak creationism in on. But this is only the least of their assaults on logic, truth, and freedom.
"American Identity Patriotism and Loyalty – We believe the current teaching of a multicultural curriculum is divisive. We favor strengthening our common American identity and loyalty instead of political correctness that nurtures alienation among racial and ethnic groups. Students should pledge allegiance to the American and Texas flags daily to instill patriotism."
That's right! Who wants or needs to know about the million different times and ways we fucked over minorities in this country? This is AMER-RI-CUH!! WHITE FOLKS' SHIT DON'T STINK!! So, historical revision for political ends, which should automatically forfeit your right to existence in my book.
"Homosexuality ― We affirm that the practice of homosexuality tears at the fabric of society and contributes to the breakdown of the family unit. Homosexual behavior is contrary to the fundamental, unchanging truths that have been ordained by God, recognized by our country’s founders, and shared by the majority of Texans."
You know, the one central question I've always had in regards to homosexuality breaking down civilization,threatening traditional marriage, etc., is how? If gay marriage is made legal, how will it destroy society? This assertion is made by conservative Christians on a daily basis, and has been so for decades, and yet there's never been a single scrap of proof for it. Because hey, if the
"Family and Defense of Marriage ― We support the definition of marriage as a God-ordained, legal and moral commitment only between a natural man and a natural woman, which is the foundational unit of a healthy society, and we oppose the assault on marriage by judicial activists. We call on the President and Congress to take immediate action to defend the sanctity of marriage. We are resolute that Congress exercise authority under the United States Constitution, and pass legislation withholding jurisdiction from the Federal Courts in cases involving family law, especially any changes in the definition of marriage. We further call on Congress to pass and the state legislatures to ratify a marriage amendment declaring that marriage in the United States shall consist of and be recognized only as the union of a natural man and a natural woman. Neither the United States nor any state shall recognize or grant to any unmarried person the legal rights or status of a spouse. We oppose the recognition of and granting of benefits to people who represent themselves as domestic partners without being legally married. We advocate the repeal of laws that place an unfair tax burden on families. We call upon Congress to completely remove the marriage penalty in the tax code, whereby a married couple receives a smaller standard deduction than their unmarried counterparts living together. The primary family unit consists of those related by blood, heterosexual marriage, or adoption. The family is responsible for its own welfare, education, moral training, conduct, and property."
Submitted without comment.
"Pledge of Allegiance - We support adoption of the Pledge Protection Act. We also urge that the National Motto “In God We Trust” and National Anthem be protected from legislative and judicial attack."
That's not the national motto, you stupid douches. Our motto is "E Pluribis Unum", or "Many Out of One", so your fictional god can go fuck himself since he's a fascist, genocidal bigot whose values and personality as revealed in the old testament are utterly un-American and have far more in common with those of Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin, Mao Zedong, and other Narcissist megalomaniacs. Congratulations; you just failed American history. Tender your resignations,assholes. Seriously.
"Protection from Extreme Environmentalists – We strongly oppose all efforts of the extreme environmental groups that stymie legitimate business interests. We strongly oppose those efforts that attempt to use the environmental causes to purposefully disrupt and stop those interests within the oil and gas industry. We strongly support the immediate repeal of the Endangered Species Act. We strongly oppose the listing of the dune sage brush lizard either as a threatened or an endangered species. We believe the Environmental Protection Agency should be abolished."
Right, because it's not like we need an "ecosystem" or something, right? Right? And don't forget, with no E.P.A. (i.e., some kind of government agency regulating the environment and enforcing laws designed to keep the planet, and by extension, our species safe and healthy), massive corporations can dump toxic waste in streams and rivers, so next time you're out camping, you better not let little Timmy go for a dip, or his dick might fall off. Dipshits.
"Knowledge-Based Education – We oppose the teaching of Higher Order Thinking Skills (HOTS) (values clarification), critical thinking skills and similar programs that are simply a relabeling of Outcome-Based Education (OBE) (mastery learning) which focus on behavior modification and have the purpose of challenging the student’s fixed beliefs and undermining parental authority."
Translation: anything that makes your kids smarter and capable of thinking for themselves is to abolished and replaced with indoctrination that encourages blind, thoughtless acceptance of authority so that they'll do whatever we tell them to do and will make an excellent slave caste of useful idiots that has been intellectual castrated and thus poses no threat to us, and will make no protest as their rights are eroded and finally done away with altogether.
Everyone who signed to this should be taken out of office immediately. That Texans could even elect scum like this is mind-boggling.
Sex Education – We recognize parental responsibility and authority regarding sex education. We believe that parents must be given an opportunity to review the material prior to giving their consent. We oppose any sex education other than abstinence until marriage."
Despite the fact that abstinence only DOES NOT WORK. Mississippi has abstinence only sex ed, and guess what? They have the highest rates of teen pregnancy and abortion in the entire U.S. If you dildo lizards were genuinely "pro-life", and really wanted to end abortion, then you would pull your heads out of your asses and realize that safe sex is the ONLY working solution to teen pregnancy. People were having bastards in the 60s, 50s, 40s, 30s, and 20s, and have been having bastards since the dawn of time. The human sex drive is far stronger than any religion ever was, and cannot be denied. Unless you're willing to become a eunuch, or course, which I'll welcome in the case of everyone who signed this document.
"Traditional Principles in Education – We support school subjects with emphasis on the Judeo-Christian principles upon which America was founded and which form the basis of America’s legal, political and economic systems. We support curricula that are heavily weighted on original founding documents, including the Declaration of Independence, the US Constitution, and Founders’ writings."
You just failed American history... again. Our Constitution, which you mindless half-wits have been referencing throughout this dismal pit of anti-intellectual shit, is completely secular, and does not reference your shitty Christian death cult at any place. Since you are all ignorant, lying, retarded cunt monkeys, here is the preamble of the Constitution pasted for your reading pleasure, since any attempt to educate or enlighten you is doomed to fail;
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
"We the People...", I don't see anything about God, Jesus, the bible, or any other religious tripe. Then we have the No Religious Test Clause and the prohibitions placed on religion by the First Amendment; that Congress shall make no law respecting ANY establishment of religion. I know you don't care about the Constitution, or that is, any part that inconveniences your Dominionist agenda, but thankfully, this is not the Dark Ages, and we have a wall of separation between church and state.
"Safeguarding Our Religious Liberties – We affirm that the public acknowledgement of God is undeniable in our history and is vital to our freedom, prosperity and strength. We pledge our influence toward a return to the original intent of the First Amendment and toward dispelling the myth of separation of church and state. We urge the Legislature to increase the ability of faith-based institutions and other organizations to assist the needy and to reduce regulation of such organizations."
" Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State." --Thomas Jefferson, January 1st, 1802. [source]
"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion..." --Treaty of Tripoli, Article 11, 1796-1797. [source]
So, in this document, you have lied, distorted facts, and made clear your intentions to violate the rights of non-heterosexual citizens, revise American history for your own ends, alter the public education system in a blatantly un-Constitutional matter, and have conspired to commit treason against the United States in both word and deed. Anyone who votes for any of you is certifiably retarded.
Thursday, August 16, 2012
Wednesday, August 8, 2012
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Is the extortion of money from parents through the torture of their child evil???
My answer is yes, because all 3 are made in the image of their creator.
Try to justify that without God. You'll only be able to make shallow sense of it.
Evil without god is easy. That is just the reality of a deterministic universe. The fact remains that the christian god is supposed to be smart enough and powerful enough to create a universe which has free will but contains no evil. If he did not do this then he wanted evil to be in the universe. Nothing can enter the universe without his knowledge and approval. If he let evil in then he is malevolent.
If the universe was deterministic then you couldn't argue against evil nor know what it is. When you compare determinism with other theories and choose your favorite, you're being inconsistent with determinism.
If you assume the reality of evil, then you have to assume the biblical God exists.
Take the fact of evil away and you don't have an argument at all.
The extortion of money from parents through the torture of their child must have your approval then.
You forget that the form of the universe is arbitrary in the eyes of the designer. Pain and suffering are only required in a universe with physical matter. Your god could simply change the laws of physics so that we would be beings of pure energy. Sure I would miss beer and BJs but I would give all that up if it meant no woman or child was ever raped again. To assuage your semantics issues I will define evil as unnecessary suffering of the innocent for this discussion.
As a determinist you have to acknowledge that rape is just the way things are. It has your approval because, in your own words,
//"That is just the reality of a deterministic universe"//
If children are tortured, it has your approval also.
"it's just the reality of a deterministic universe".
Pain and suffering..
"it's just the reality of a deterministic universe".
It all has cidvisions approval.
Let's be consistent, right?
A classic example of the straw-man attack. Instead of addressing what your opponent said, go off-topic and accuse him of endorsing immoral behavior, thus conveniently allowing you to slip away from addressing his arguments. Dishonest, illogical, and cowardly, and many Christians do this sort of thing every day. Of course, it's far more prevalent amongst evangelical/fundamentalist types than others, and some Christians are thankfully more intelligent than this. And of course, how mature is it to goad people into becoming angry, and then trying to use that anger against them, i.e., "you obviously hate God, hur durr", despite the fact that it is patently impossible to hate something that you don't believe exists? Not at all.
And the straw-men/Ad Hominems don't stop there. What about the propaganda Christians have been printing and disseminating about atheists and other non-Christians for centuries? Most students of history have heard of the "blood Libel". In the Middle Ages, this was a racial stereotype of Jews that maintained they kidnapped and murdered Gentile babies, so that they could use their blood to bake their unleavened bread for Passover. This itself is just rehashed propaganda that conservative Romans flung at the early Christians in Rome (the Communion sacraments, where the bread becomes Christ's body, and the communal wine becomes his blood, was misinterpreted either deliberately or accidentally by pagans). So, here is the question; why would the Saved, the Elect, the Chosen Ones, the children of God, those imbued with the Holy Spirit, degrade themselves and besmirch their God's good name by telling lies about people who didn't share their convictions? For centuries? And more importantly, why would they persist in slandering non-Christians well into the modern era?
Modern propaganda against atheists, just to cite one example since I myself am an atheist, and it would take a whole volume or more to cover the various slanders against non-Christian religions, consists of several cheap attacks. The most common is to conflate atheists with Communists, particularly the violent Soviet variety who tortured and murdered millions of people in their countries. Example; "If these secularists ever get control, we'll see what atheists are really like--just look at atheists like Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot". Here's the issue; Communism is an ideology, and a philosophy, with it's own ethics and doctrines regarding everything from religion, the economy, the role of the state, justice, banking, commerce, foreign policy, domestic policy, education, science, and pretty much everything else. Atheism is a rejection of belief in/disbelief in gods. No more, no less. Communism incorporates atheism as it's stance on religion, but unlike atheism, which is essentially a freethinker's conclusion like agnosticism or deism, Communism leaves no room for questioning. In every country it's been incorporated in, Communism has overthrown deities and replaced them/him/her with a new god; the State, which reigns supreme and is above question. Basically, it's a secular fundamentalist cult, replacing the mindless routine of traditional religion with the equally mindless routine of obeying the State in every matter without thought or question. And let's not forget the fact that some Communist leaders like Kim Jong Il have actually set themselves up as gods, including myths attributing supernatural powers to them. In these cases, it's not even the State that is worshiped, but the leader themselves. And to top it off, not a single one of these communist leaders killed people in the name of atheism. Not once. Instead, they killed people in the name of "progress", or "justice". The point; regardless of what hacks like Jack Chick or John Hagee say, communism=/=atheism.
And of course, there are others, many others. Like circular logic. If I were to say that God doesn't exist because an atheist book I read said so, would that be a logical statement? No. Why? Because it's an appeal to authority fallacy and an example of circular logic. So, what justifies saying the bible is true because it says it's true? Like saying that Adam and Eve were real or the Great Flood really happened because they're in the bible? One stupid and immature thing Christians frequently do that pisses off atheists is when they claim that atheists are fools, and then try to "prove" this by quoting Psalms 14;1, "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God". If that isn't circular logic--i.e., bullshit--then what is? Needless to say, if I were ever to start my own cult, whether as a way to stroke a God Complex or simply to fuck the I.R.S., the first thing I'd write into my "scripture" would be a nice little Ad Hominem depicting everyone who disagrees with my claims as corrupt, stupid, and evil. It's not like anyone with an I.Q. over the single digits would ever fall for such a blatant trick, right?
Then there's historical revision. This one pisses me off as much as creationism does, because it's goal is the same; to lie, twist facts, cherry-pick data, and try to brainwash people into buying this disinformation and spreading it further afield in order to advance an agenda. Case in point; Christianity is responsible for laying the foundations of modern science, and for all of the great achievements of Western Civilization. In truth, this claim is so obviously biased and myopic that only the most hopelessly ignorant could ever accept it. The foundations of science can be summed up as critical thought, skepticism, experimentation; the method through which scientists test the merits of an idea by holding it to rigorous and thorough standards of proof. This method was NOT pioneered by Christians, but by the ancient Greeks like Archimedes, Pythagoras, and Hippocates, the father of medicine. To see some fascinating examples of Greek science, click here. And it wasn't just the scientific method or medicine that we owe to the Greeks; we also owe them democracy, which they formalized before anyone else (that we know of), and the great tradition of poetry and literature, like the Epics. And let us not forget architecture, which in later centuries would improved upon by the Romans, and then the Christians to build magnificent castles and cathedrals. Did Christians develop and contribute to these things? Yes. But they did not invent them. In fact, there was a very long period, the Dark Ages, where they made very little progress in these areas at all thanks to the theocratic stranglehold of the Church over every facet of society, not so different from modern totalitarianism. In fact, if not for the efforts of the Arabs and Moors who kept Greek works alive in Islamic culture, Western Civilization may have never recovered from the Christian Dark Ages. After all, the Renaissance was essentially just a re-discovery of ideas set forth by the Greeks, preserved and improved in the Arab world, and brought back to Europe by returning Crusaders.
The point of this post is thus; the reason atheists (and many other non-Christians) don't respect Christians is because they don't deserve it. Sure, not all of you do this. Some Christians leave immature logical fallacies, historical revisionism, science denial, and name-calling to their fundamentalist counterparts. But enough of you do participate in and encourage this type of behavior that it's given your whole religion a bad name amongst other people. Respect is earned, not given. Some Christians I've argued with have at least some degree of my respect, because they don't try to insult me or smear me, and they are usually honest enough to admit when they don't know how to refute a point; but the majority I've argued with are the complete opposite. When you stop lying though your teeth and start arguing at least on a high school level and not well below it, you'll have some respect. Until then, grow up.