"They're saying that the Ten Commandments have been taken out of the court houses and out of the school houses lest we offend the atheists. Let me be very clear: This country was not built for atheists nor by atheists. It was built by Christian people who believed in the word of God."
Thomas Paine and Thomas Jefferson would like a word with you. They were not atheists, but they sure as hell were not christians, and they sure as hell didn't intend for this country to be a theocracy. That is the reason why our Constitution is 100% secular. Because the Founding Fathers, christian and non-christian alike, were intelligent men who knew why their ancestors had come to America to begin with; to escape jerks like you. A secular nation protects all religions and religious sects equally; contrast this with every christian theocracy in history.
"To the atheist watching this telecast, if our belief in God offends you, move. {Applause.}"
Um, dumbass (and every dumb fuck who applauded)? Whatever imaginary friend you believe in is immaterial to me. Some of my best friends are christians. What offends me is when pompous pricks like yourself try to rewrite history to cater to your mindless congregations, and try to force your beliefs down my throat.
"There are planes leaving every hour on the hour, going every place on planet Earth. Get on one. We don't want you and we won't miss you. I promise you."
Go play a record backwards and kill yourself, you slimy dildo lizard. I have just as much right to this country as you and the moronic horde attending your church do. If my Constitutional rights offend you, move. I won't miss you.
"Our coins say in God We Trust."
A piece of unconstitutional propaganda left over from the McCarthy era.
"President Obama, you recently told the foreign media that America is not a Christian nation. You're absolutely wrong."
Treaty of Tripoli. QED.
"We were, we are, and always shall be a Bible-reading, praying, Christian people. {Applause and standing ovation.}"
It must be nice to attract such ignorant retards to your church. The Constitution, the First Amendment, and the Treaty of Tripoli disagree with you, dumbass. The fact that christians have always been the religious majority in this country has no impact on our law, or shouldn't, if we actually cared about preserving the Founders' values. Not of course, that scum like yourself give a shit about what they believed in and fought for.
"Several years ago, witchcraft and satanism were officially approved by the U.S. Military at the direction of the U.S. Congress. We have officially chosen to recognize another god."
Hey, if freedom, liberty, and justice for all offends you, move. There are planes leaving every hour on the hour. Get on one. Nobody with an IQ above the single digits will miss you. Go hang out with your theocratist buddies in Saudi Arabia.
"I call upon the members of Congress to outlaw the practice of witchcraft and satanism in the U.S. Military lest we offend the God of Heaven."
You're a fascist fuck-wad. Has anyone ever told you that? And so is your congregation. Never mind moving, just go back in time to the Dark Ages where you belong. And some evidence for your assertion of "witchcraft" (which doesn't exist) and Satanism (which is protected by the Constitution anyway) would be nice.
"I don't care about the atheist."
That's good, because we don't care about you either. Now go take a long walk off a short pier. And to people reading this, the next time some idiot tells you that Christian Dominionism doesn't exist, send him a link to Hagee's caterwauling. This is not the first time he's made such claims before the brainless mutants that flock to his temple every Sunday.
Source.
Showing posts with label Christian Rubbish/Christian Propaganda. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Christian Rubbish/Christian Propaganda. Show all posts
Thursday, June 14, 2012
Wednesday, June 13, 2012
DOUBTING DUMBASSES
http://www.worldmag.com/articles/19401
"The sky is falling! Many interest groups and journalists raced to tell that to the public when a modest but important bill became law in Tennessee early in April. The law instructs teachers and administrators to "create an environment within public elementary and secondary schools that encourages students to explore scientific questions, learn about scientific evidence, develop critical thinking skills, and respond appropriately and respectfully to differences of opinion about controversial issues."
What's not to like? The law, similar to one in Louisiana, also protects teachers who help students (I'm quoting from the official legislative summary) "understand, analyze, critique, and review in an objective manner the scientific strengths and scientific weaknesses of existing scientific theories covered in the course being taught. ..." Oh, here's the problem: Evolution is one of the theories that can now be analyzed and critiqued."
Is that really the issue here? That evolution will be criticized? Certainly, if one gets their news from WORLD magazine and Marvin Olasky, that may appear to be the case; except for a teensy, weensy problem that Marvin fails to address. Which states are we talking? Tennessee and Louisiana, deeply religious states filled with science deniers (also known as "creationists"). So when a bill is passed that goes out of it's way to inform us that the theory of evolution will be subject to criticism, where the uninformed see nothing overtly sinister, the skeptical are already wondering if this law is giving creationists leeway to start undermining science education in that state.
"The American Association for the Advancement of Science, the American Civil Liberties Union of Tennessee, the American Institute of Biological Sciences, the National Association of Geoscience Teachers, and many others have gone ape over the inclusion of evolution. They revere critical thinking and the freedom to explore, but not when it might produce irreverence toward their idol."
You know what's funny, Marv? If the high schools of Tenn. are doing their job right, then they're already asking questions over how things like natural selection work. That's what I did these last two semesters at Midland College, and my atheist geology professor never batted an eyelid when I or anyone else asked questions over TOE. The issue is not whether evolution should be somehow held sacred and above question; the issue is how this bill will be used; to further science education, or give biased teachers a means of tainting it in a notoriously religious and anti-science state. And by the way, if evolution is such an "idol", what about creationism? I can't help but notice that your magazine has sometimes contained advertisements for Bob Jones University, the infamous religious diploma mill that was racially segregated right up until 2000, that teaches the discredited lie of YEC, and offers no courses whatsoever in geology, one of the essential earth sciences that coincidentally proved a long time ago that the earth cannot possibly be 6,000 years old. Talk about clinging to idols, namely racism and anti-science dogma...
"Those groups and many journalists brought up Tennessee's 1925 law that made illegal the teaching of evolution in public schools and led to the Scopes "monkey trial." They did not note that most public schools in the four score and seven years since then have gone to the other extreme by forbidding the teaching of anything but evolution."
Since evolution has been proven by paleontology and biology (see Richard Lenski's E. Coli experiment, for example, or the blind Texas salamander), what point is there is teaching unsubstantiated nonsense? Should geography teachers present modern flat-earth conspiracy theories to their class? Should chemistry teachers take time to lecture on alchemy? Should astronomy professors spend time on astrology and geocentrism? Eh? I certainly don't see you pointing out flaws in TOE, or suggesting a viable, alternative mechanism for biological diversity. Why is that?
"In states from Virginia to Washington true believers in evolution have harassed and driven away teachers who dared to teach both sides of the Darwin debate"
That's because teachers who teach discredited, debunked theories in order to promote personal religious views are violating the First Amendment, as well as their duty to teach facts, not fiction. As I have proven on this blog multiple times (namely here, here, here, here, here, here, here, and here), creationism, whether you call it that or intelligent design, is an inherently dishonest, disingenuous anti-intellectual dogma held solely by the woefully ignorant, the abysmally uneducated, and the criminally stupid. After 150 years, evolution via natural selection is held as a fact by over 99.999% of the scientific community. There are hundreds of thousands of peer-approved papers supporting it, and not a single bit of research compromising it. Meanwhile, Cretinists, instead of conducting research in the field and performing experiments like real scientists, attempt to combat the hateful theory of "Darwinism" through propaganda and wasteful court battles. Not of course, that they'll ever admit to the fact that if their cherished belief rested upon even a grain of truth, it would be capable of holding it's own against TOE in peer review.
'If macro-evolution were proven, the true believers would have a case, but more than 800 Ph.D.-bearing scientists have signed a statement expressing skepticism about contemporary evolutionary theory's claims that random mutation and natural selection account for the complexity of life. These scientists say, "Careful examination of the evidence for Darwinian theory should be encouraged."'
Appeal to Authority. In other words, you, sir, are a moron. It's funny how Olasky, the Editor in Chief of WORLD, who has been touted as a great journalist, is committing elementary level logical fallacies and is sloppy enough to fail to provide a source for this 'statement'. Here's a link to the statement. Here's another link to evidence for macro-evolution. It's funny how he lacks the knowledge to actually point out any flaws in the theory himself: instead, he just blithely says that since people with Ph.Ds agree with him, evolution hasn't been proven. Never mind the fact that the veracity of an argument isn't determined by the credentials of the person making it, but by the internal logic and evidence it rests upon. Credentials merely mean that that person is better equipped to understand a specific field of study than someone who does not have them.
'As soon as we abandon our own reason, and are content to rely upon authority, there is no end to our troubles.' --Bertrand Russell
'The 1925 law tried to close off debate, but the think tank that has proposed laws like Tennessee's new one, the Discovery Institute, is working to increase the coverage of evolution in textbooks. It wants evolution, including its unresolved issues, to be fully presented to students: "Evolution should be taught as a scientific theory that is open to critical scrutiny, not as a sacred dogma that can't be questioned.'
So what evidence is there that it was being taught as a "sacred dogma"? Oh that's right; there is none.
'That gets to the heart of the hysteria. The New York Times editorialized in 1925 for "faith, even of a grain of mustard seed, in the evolution of life." The Times said evolution gives us hope for progress: "If man has evolved, it is inconceivable that the process should stop and leave him in his present imperfect state. Specific creation has no such promise for man."'
That sounds accurate to me. According to the mindless fundamentalist interpretation of the bible which virtually all creationists adhere to, man was created flawed, and has no hope of ever bettering himself, except by groveling before the very being who made him/her that way. Of course, this is just a philosophical nicety, and pretty weak as far as arguments for TOE go, but it makes a nice change from the fanaticism that has so marked this country.
"Specific creation, of course, has the ultimate promise: God cares."
Which is why he'll roast you alive for millions and billions and trillions of years to the power of infinity if you fail to worship him and stroke his ego (despite being a perfect being who should then, by definition, have no needs and no wants).
"Sadly, many look desperately for hope elsewhere, anywhere. Last month the New York Times editorial page editor, consistent with his predecessors, criticized critics of evolution who have "learned to manufacture doubt." The Times, of course, daily manufactures doubt regarding God, but thunders, "Thou shalt not doubt" evolution. If other states follow Tennessee's example, we'll have a robust debate instead of more attempts to suppress it"
There is no debate, dumbass. Evolution has been established as a fact for over one hundred years at this point. Just because you're too ignorant to comprehend the depth of research supporting it doesn't mean that it hasn't been proven. Biology, genetics, geology, and paleontology make no sense whatsoever if evolution is not true. Why don't you go to the nearest college and educate yourself?
"The sky is falling! Many interest groups and journalists raced to tell that to the public when a modest but important bill became law in Tennessee early in April. The law instructs teachers and administrators to "create an environment within public elementary and secondary schools that encourages students to explore scientific questions, learn about scientific evidence, develop critical thinking skills, and respond appropriately and respectfully to differences of opinion about controversial issues."
What's not to like? The law, similar to one in Louisiana, also protects teachers who help students (I'm quoting from the official legislative summary) "understand, analyze, critique, and review in an objective manner the scientific strengths and scientific weaknesses of existing scientific theories covered in the course being taught. ..." Oh, here's the problem: Evolution is one of the theories that can now be analyzed and critiqued."
Is that really the issue here? That evolution will be criticized? Certainly, if one gets their news from WORLD magazine and Marvin Olasky, that may appear to be the case; except for a teensy, weensy problem that Marvin fails to address. Which states are we talking? Tennessee and Louisiana, deeply religious states filled with science deniers (also known as "creationists"). So when a bill is passed that goes out of it's way to inform us that the theory of evolution will be subject to criticism, where the uninformed see nothing overtly sinister, the skeptical are already wondering if this law is giving creationists leeway to start undermining science education in that state.
"The American Association for the Advancement of Science, the American Civil Liberties Union of Tennessee, the American Institute of Biological Sciences, the National Association of Geoscience Teachers, and many others have gone ape over the inclusion of evolution. They revere critical thinking and the freedom to explore, but not when it might produce irreverence toward their idol."
You know what's funny, Marv? If the high schools of Tenn. are doing their job right, then they're already asking questions over how things like natural selection work. That's what I did these last two semesters at Midland College, and my atheist geology professor never batted an eyelid when I or anyone else asked questions over TOE. The issue is not whether evolution should be somehow held sacred and above question; the issue is how this bill will be used; to further science education, or give biased teachers a means of tainting it in a notoriously religious and anti-science state. And by the way, if evolution is such an "idol", what about creationism? I can't help but notice that your magazine has sometimes contained advertisements for Bob Jones University, the infamous religious diploma mill that was racially segregated right up until 2000, that teaches the discredited lie of YEC, and offers no courses whatsoever in geology, one of the essential earth sciences that coincidentally proved a long time ago that the earth cannot possibly be 6,000 years old. Talk about clinging to idols, namely racism and anti-science dogma...
"Those groups and many journalists brought up Tennessee's 1925 law that made illegal the teaching of evolution in public schools and led to the Scopes "monkey trial." They did not note that most public schools in the four score and seven years since then have gone to the other extreme by forbidding the teaching of anything but evolution."
Since evolution has been proven by paleontology and biology (see Richard Lenski's E. Coli experiment, for example, or the blind Texas salamander), what point is there is teaching unsubstantiated nonsense? Should geography teachers present modern flat-earth conspiracy theories to their class? Should chemistry teachers take time to lecture on alchemy? Should astronomy professors spend time on astrology and geocentrism? Eh? I certainly don't see you pointing out flaws in TOE, or suggesting a viable, alternative mechanism for biological diversity. Why is that?
"In states from Virginia to Washington true believers in evolution have harassed and driven away teachers who dared to teach both sides of the Darwin debate"
That's because teachers who teach discredited, debunked theories in order to promote personal religious views are violating the First Amendment, as well as their duty to teach facts, not fiction. As I have proven on this blog multiple times (namely here, here, here, here, here, here, here, and here), creationism, whether you call it that or intelligent design, is an inherently dishonest, disingenuous anti-intellectual dogma held solely by the woefully ignorant, the abysmally uneducated, and the criminally stupid. After 150 years, evolution via natural selection is held as a fact by over 99.999% of the scientific community. There are hundreds of thousands of peer-approved papers supporting it, and not a single bit of research compromising it. Meanwhile, Cretinists, instead of conducting research in the field and performing experiments like real scientists, attempt to combat the hateful theory of "Darwinism" through propaganda and wasteful court battles. Not of course, that they'll ever admit to the fact that if their cherished belief rested upon even a grain of truth, it would be capable of holding it's own against TOE in peer review.
'If macro-evolution were proven, the true believers would have a case, but more than 800 Ph.D.-bearing scientists have signed a statement expressing skepticism about contemporary evolutionary theory's claims that random mutation and natural selection account for the complexity of life. These scientists say, "Careful examination of the evidence for Darwinian theory should be encouraged."'
Appeal to Authority. In other words, you, sir, are a moron. It's funny how Olasky, the Editor in Chief of WORLD, who has been touted as a great journalist, is committing elementary level logical fallacies and is sloppy enough to fail to provide a source for this 'statement'. Here's a link to the statement. Here's another link to evidence for macro-evolution. It's funny how he lacks the knowledge to actually point out any flaws in the theory himself: instead, he just blithely says that since people with Ph.Ds agree with him, evolution hasn't been proven. Never mind the fact that the veracity of an argument isn't determined by the credentials of the person making it, but by the internal logic and evidence it rests upon. Credentials merely mean that that person is better equipped to understand a specific field of study than someone who does not have them.
'As soon as we abandon our own reason, and are content to rely upon authority, there is no end to our troubles.' --Bertrand Russell
'The 1925 law tried to close off debate, but the think tank that has proposed laws like Tennessee's new one, the Discovery Institute, is working to increase the coverage of evolution in textbooks. It wants evolution, including its unresolved issues, to be fully presented to students: "Evolution should be taught as a scientific theory that is open to critical scrutiny, not as a sacred dogma that can't be questioned.'
So what evidence is there that it was being taught as a "sacred dogma"? Oh that's right; there is none.
'That gets to the heart of the hysteria. The New York Times editorialized in 1925 for "faith, even of a grain of mustard seed, in the evolution of life." The Times said evolution gives us hope for progress: "If man has evolved, it is inconceivable that the process should stop and leave him in his present imperfect state. Specific creation has no such promise for man."'
That sounds accurate to me. According to the mindless fundamentalist interpretation of the bible which virtually all creationists adhere to, man was created flawed, and has no hope of ever bettering himself, except by groveling before the very being who made him/her that way. Of course, this is just a philosophical nicety, and pretty weak as far as arguments for TOE go, but it makes a nice change from the fanaticism that has so marked this country.
"Specific creation, of course, has the ultimate promise: God cares."
Which is why he'll roast you alive for millions and billions and trillions of years to the power of infinity if you fail to worship him and stroke his ego (despite being a perfect being who should then, by definition, have no needs and no wants).
"Sadly, many look desperately for hope elsewhere, anywhere. Last month the New York Times editorial page editor, consistent with his predecessors, criticized critics of evolution who have "learned to manufacture doubt." The Times, of course, daily manufactures doubt regarding God, but thunders, "Thou shalt not doubt" evolution. If other states follow Tennessee's example, we'll have a robust debate instead of more attempts to suppress it"
There is no debate, dumbass. Evolution has been established as a fact for over one hundred years at this point. Just because you're too ignorant to comprehend the depth of research supporting it doesn't mean that it hasn't been proven. Biology, genetics, geology, and paleontology make no sense whatsoever if evolution is not true. Why don't you go to the nearest college and educate yourself?
Thursday, May 24, 2012
COMPLETELY DESTROYING FUNDAMENTALISM IN ONE GIANT POST
http://eternian.wordpress.com/evidence/
"I often come across people who speak as if there’s no evidence for the Bible, basing this on their simple-minded gullible falling for whatever fits their predisposition to their sinful lifestyle, in other words, believing whatever is convenient and justifies their feelings, their way of life."
Funny; except for the bible part, that's exactly how I describe creationists.
"I have written many articles in my journal (there’s over 690 articles now, not including the “pages” that always stay on top) and many references throughout my journal, which I’ve noticed are very VERY rarely clicked on, and yet I’ll get atheists and agnostics and Christian-haters babbling about how there’s no evidence for what I say on my journal, and saying I’m a liar, dishonest, and one “secular thinker” in under about an hour of reading a few articles of my journal, says I have no evidence for my “assertions” and “You clearly don’t care about truth”, a phrase this conniving weasel was repeating back to me since no doubt he came across it. It’s incredible that evil morons like that think I’d let their comments be posted, but they seem to be hoping to anger me so much that in some sort of angry state my judgment will be compromised and that I’ll just go ahead and let their rant get posted so that they can anger. mislead and waste the time of others (he had also stuck in a link to his stupid journal, no doubt stupid since he was denying evidence all over my journal right in front of his face, let alone in hundreds of thousands of pages all over the Internet, evidence in countless bookstores and libraries and the evidence that can be understood from Bible itself)."
Yes, I know it's long, and I know it's rambling, but make sure to read the whole excerpt above, especially the last couple sentences, which are very telling. Case in point; "he had also stuck in a link to his stupid journal, no doubt stupid since he was denying evidence all over my journal right in front of his face, let alone in hundreds of thousands of pages all over the Internet, evidence in countless bookstores and libraries and the evidence that can be understood from Bible itself". So, anyone who doesn't agree with Knight is an evil moron whose arguments are stupid by default. My, my, it's nice to see Calvinists upholding intelligent discourse. And of course he has a convenient excuse for not allowing dissenting comments; they would just "waste time". It's funny how most atheist blogs and sites have open comment policies, or only moderate excessive profanity and ad homs. But the best part is the reason he gives. He is saying that since there are thousands of web pages that agree with him, and countless books, he is correct. Argumentum ad Populem. UFO nuts who claim to have been abducted and anally probed could make the exact same argument against their detractors. But don't worry; the Fail just keeps stacking up.
"1) Bible Archeology (BA) (the archaeological evidence is already linked to thoroughly in my 20 Questions for Muslims article, linked to on the right hand side of this page). B.A. usually refers to idols that ancient people have made, ancient records carved in stone, or ancient coins, ancient cities (many of which were buried under the sand till discovered). And these things confirm the Bible’s claims about various types of religions having existed, and specific cities, and races of people, and other things. Do the research, retyping it is a waste of time when it’s already there to read. Books on the archeology of the Bible:..."
First off, and I think I've mentioned this elsewhere, factual elements in a fictional story only lend it credence if you're delusional. "The Stand" by Stephen King contains countless facts that were present throughout 1990s America. He writes about authentic cars, planes, vehicles, firearms, drugs, medicines, events, persons, and cultural trends of the time. So does this mean that his epic story of post-apocalyptic good vs. evil happened in some parallel universe? Of course not! Likewise, for a much closer parallel to the bible, look at the Iliad. Until the discovery of Troy's actual remains in 1870 by Heinrich Schlieman, there was no evidence for Homer's writings. So, does the historical fact of the Trojan War mean that Achilles was really invincible down to the ankle? No. Factual elements with evidence don't prove supernatural ones without evidence. So to argue that the bible is accurate because of actual cities, races, religions, and cultures mentioned in it's pages is just as stupid as arguing for Odysseus' fight with Polyphemus based upon the discovery of Troy. The one does not follow the other, and I think I speak for all skeptics when I say that it's the fantastical parts of the bible we have difficulty swallowing. The Assyrians conquered the Hebrews? Well, that's been corroborated by history. Samson somehow killing off an entire army with a bone? I don't think so.
Note; right after this, he lists 12 books relating archeological discoveries that match biblical accounts. Since they're not relevant to the argument, you can find their titles by scrolling down a short ways into his post.
"2) Bible Geology: That’s a term I just thought of, but I’m sure looking it up will result in search results on the Flood of Noah and evidence for it. The most obvious evidence are sea fossils on mountain tops and dry land masses all over the world, and that are bunched together. They are like that because of huge water currents pushing the sea animals into large clumps."
*sigh* As a geology student, I find this dreadfully stupid. The first problem with "Flood geology", which isn't geology at all, but religious pseudo-science, is the over-simplified arguments they use. The entire geologic column is layered. These layers formed over vast expanses of time, but it wasn't until we developed radio-metric dating that we could tell just how long exactly. Mountains, for example, are formed by tectonic plates grinding together and pushing upwards in the middle [source]. Which means that the flood is only one possible explanation, and as we shall see, one that has been falsified by other evidence (hint; it involves the Time Scale and the fossil record within).
"It’s the same with land animals that were killed, which are almost always found buried together"
Many of whom died in non-marine environments [source]. By creationist "logic" (if you want to drag the word though the muck by associating it with them), dinosaurs went extinct in the Flood. Exactly why, we don't know; wasn't Noah supposed to pick them up? Oh well; maybe it just slipped his mind. The point being; creationists use the flood as a way to explain the mass extinctions we see in the fossil record. The problem? Is that it's "extinctions", plural, not just one. The Geologic Time Scale is divided by major events in earth history, but mainly though evolutionary trends seen in each layer. A major upheaval; i.e., an extinction event, often makes up the end of an eon, era, period, or epoch. We see major mass extinctions, and then a resurgence of life following it. If the column has been laid down all at one time, however, then these layers wouldn't exist since the fossils would all be jumbled up with no sequence or pattern. As it is, the fossil record simulates approximately 2 billion years of gradual adaptation and increasing diversity.
"There are also various fossilized human footprints, and though evolutionists try and “debunk” them, they fail, and you’d be wasting valuable time reading their meandering (and on a side note: completely boring) attempts to."
The stupidity and intellectual dishonesty of creationists never fails to amaze me. First he says that almost nobody actually looks at the sources he cites, which certainly sounds like a reasonable complaint, and then turns around and says that there's no point in reading anything written by people who don't agree with him, because in his own little world, he is the ultimate authority on science, so the 99.9% of the scientific community that doesn't agree with his views are "evil morons", even though they have credentials and a lifetime's experience in their various fields. What credentials does our friend Daniel have? And just to clarify to the sheeple out there; good science is not about entertainment value, but proof. So if you dismiss theories, papers, or arguments on the basis that you find them "boring", you're a lazy, ignorant ass-hat. And regarding your claim of fossilized human footprints; humans (as in modern Homo sapiens) have existed for roughly 200,000 years [source]. So yeah, a fossilized foot-print doesn't deal some crippling blow to evolution. And [citation needed].
"Another obvious sign of the flood are the many crystals all over the world (crystals require liquid chemical mixing to form, and to form large and well formed shapes). It seems more reasonable that something like a quartz crystal would have more likely formed due to a large amount of chemicals in liquid mixing up and forming over a few years, rather than an 7000-15 billion years."
So every atheist or scientist who disagrees with you is evil and stupid, and yet you seem to be completely ignorant of what arguments geologists make for an old earth and biologists (and paleontologists) make for evolution. For starters; crystals are igneous rocks, which means they form in magma, or molten rock [source]. And the earth is roughly four billions years old, not fifteen billion, which is the age of the universe. That's a pretty sophomoric mistake, Mr. Omniscience. You would do well to take a geology class.
"The crystal evidence occurred to me on 4/24/2012, after one of my crystal digs of an unknown crystal type nearby, which today, on 4/25/2012, concluded was gypsum. When I read a few sites on it today, I came upon one that said mineralogists thought gypsum was the result of the ocean once being over landmasses. Do you think all these things happening in the order I described them are mere coincidence? I myself don’t think so."
Finding an unfamiliar crystal doesn't change the basic fact that igneous rocks form in magma, not water. And geology has already explained how and why the ocean was once over landmasses. Continental rifting is one.
"3) Bible internal consistency: this refers to the Bible saying things within itself that are in agreement, that don’t conflict/contradict. The Bible is a large book with many different claims and teachings, prophecies and laws and using various literary devices like symbolism and figures of speech. So then, it is not a simple book over all. It doesn’t even use periods or commas, making it even more complex. It also doesn’t use every single word to express a thought like is often done in English. You have to fill on the blanks using logical deduction and from knowledge of the language use of the Jews who spoke the language in ancient times (by reading other ancient writings that are more modern and translated into other languages) or from Jews who still speak the language. The Greek part of the Bible is not as hard to understand as Hebrew. But so, again, the Bible is not a simple book. The point is, humans are very prone to making mistakes, and so the Bible being as large and complicated as it is, should have major mistakes, especially since it was written by over 50 different people, and was a struggle to preserve over thousands of years of famines, wars, journeying and persecution. Yet, if you’re not blinded and spend enough time researching, you should find, like me, that the Bible has no contradictions. I’ve heard every supposed contradiction and even thought of ones that no atheist seemed to notice, but they always turned out to not be errors."
This sounds good in writing, but not if you actually crack open a bible and read it. For example; Isaiah 40:22 ""He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in." If the heavens are spread out like a tent, then the earth must be flat in this context. And then there's this here.If the bible contains no contradictions, why are there multiple versions of David and Goliath?
"I often come across people who speak as if there’s no evidence for the Bible, basing this on their simple-minded gullible falling for whatever fits their predisposition to their sinful lifestyle, in other words, believing whatever is convenient and justifies their feelings, their way of life."
Funny; except for the bible part, that's exactly how I describe creationists.
"I have written many articles in my journal (there’s over 690 articles now, not including the “pages” that always stay on top) and many references throughout my journal, which I’ve noticed are very VERY rarely clicked on, and yet I’ll get atheists and agnostics and Christian-haters babbling about how there’s no evidence for what I say on my journal, and saying I’m a liar, dishonest, and one “secular thinker” in under about an hour of reading a few articles of my journal, says I have no evidence for my “assertions” and “You clearly don’t care about truth”, a phrase this conniving weasel was repeating back to me since no doubt he came across it. It’s incredible that evil morons like that think I’d let their comments be posted, but they seem to be hoping to anger me so much that in some sort of angry state my judgment will be compromised and that I’ll just go ahead and let their rant get posted so that they can anger. mislead and waste the time of others (he had also stuck in a link to his stupid journal, no doubt stupid since he was denying evidence all over my journal right in front of his face, let alone in hundreds of thousands of pages all over the Internet, evidence in countless bookstores and libraries and the evidence that can be understood from Bible itself)."
Yes, I know it's long, and I know it's rambling, but make sure to read the whole excerpt above, especially the last couple sentences, which are very telling. Case in point; "he had also stuck in a link to his stupid journal, no doubt stupid since he was denying evidence all over my journal right in front of his face, let alone in hundreds of thousands of pages all over the Internet, evidence in countless bookstores and libraries and the evidence that can be understood from Bible itself". So, anyone who doesn't agree with Knight is an evil moron whose arguments are stupid by default. My, my, it's nice to see Calvinists upholding intelligent discourse. And of course he has a convenient excuse for not allowing dissenting comments; they would just "waste time". It's funny how most atheist blogs and sites have open comment policies, or only moderate excessive profanity and ad homs. But the best part is the reason he gives. He is saying that since there are thousands of web pages that agree with him, and countless books, he is correct. Argumentum ad Populem. UFO nuts who claim to have been abducted and anally probed could make the exact same argument against their detractors. But don't worry; the Fail just keeps stacking up.
"1) Bible Archeology (BA) (the archaeological evidence is already linked to thoroughly in my 20 Questions for Muslims article, linked to on the right hand side of this page). B.A. usually refers to idols that ancient people have made, ancient records carved in stone, or ancient coins, ancient cities (many of which were buried under the sand till discovered). And these things confirm the Bible’s claims about various types of religions having existed, and specific cities, and races of people, and other things. Do the research, retyping it is a waste of time when it’s already there to read. Books on the archeology of the Bible:..."
First off, and I think I've mentioned this elsewhere, factual elements in a fictional story only lend it credence if you're delusional. "The Stand" by Stephen King contains countless facts that were present throughout 1990s America. He writes about authentic cars, planes, vehicles, firearms, drugs, medicines, events, persons, and cultural trends of the time. So does this mean that his epic story of post-apocalyptic good vs. evil happened in some parallel universe? Of course not! Likewise, for a much closer parallel to the bible, look at the Iliad. Until the discovery of Troy's actual remains in 1870 by Heinrich Schlieman, there was no evidence for Homer's writings. So, does the historical fact of the Trojan War mean that Achilles was really invincible down to the ankle? No. Factual elements with evidence don't prove supernatural ones without evidence. So to argue that the bible is accurate because of actual cities, races, religions, and cultures mentioned in it's pages is just as stupid as arguing for Odysseus' fight with Polyphemus based upon the discovery of Troy. The one does not follow the other, and I think I speak for all skeptics when I say that it's the fantastical parts of the bible we have difficulty swallowing. The Assyrians conquered the Hebrews? Well, that's been corroborated by history. Samson somehow killing off an entire army with a bone? I don't think so.
Note; right after this, he lists 12 books relating archeological discoveries that match biblical accounts. Since they're not relevant to the argument, you can find their titles by scrolling down a short ways into his post.
"2) Bible Geology: That’s a term I just thought of, but I’m sure looking it up will result in search results on the Flood of Noah and evidence for it. The most obvious evidence are sea fossils on mountain tops and dry land masses all over the world, and that are bunched together. They are like that because of huge water currents pushing the sea animals into large clumps."
*sigh* As a geology student, I find this dreadfully stupid. The first problem with "Flood geology", which isn't geology at all, but religious pseudo-science, is the over-simplified arguments they use. The entire geologic column is layered. These layers formed over vast expanses of time, but it wasn't until we developed radio-metric dating that we could tell just how long exactly. Mountains, for example, are formed by tectonic plates grinding together and pushing upwards in the middle [source]. Which means that the flood is only one possible explanation, and as we shall see, one that has been falsified by other evidence (hint; it involves the Time Scale and the fossil record within).
"It’s the same with land animals that were killed, which are almost always found buried together"
Many of whom died in non-marine environments [source]. By creationist "logic" (if you want to drag the word though the muck by associating it with them), dinosaurs went extinct in the Flood. Exactly why, we don't know; wasn't Noah supposed to pick them up? Oh well; maybe it just slipped his mind. The point being; creationists use the flood as a way to explain the mass extinctions we see in the fossil record. The problem? Is that it's "extinctions", plural, not just one. The Geologic Time Scale is divided by major events in earth history, but mainly though evolutionary trends seen in each layer. A major upheaval; i.e., an extinction event, often makes up the end of an eon, era, period, or epoch. We see major mass extinctions, and then a resurgence of life following it. If the column has been laid down all at one time, however, then these layers wouldn't exist since the fossils would all be jumbled up with no sequence or pattern. As it is, the fossil record simulates approximately 2 billion years of gradual adaptation and increasing diversity.
"There are also various fossilized human footprints, and though evolutionists try and “debunk” them, they fail, and you’d be wasting valuable time reading their meandering (and on a side note: completely boring) attempts to."
The stupidity and intellectual dishonesty of creationists never fails to amaze me. First he says that almost nobody actually looks at the sources he cites, which certainly sounds like a reasonable complaint, and then turns around and says that there's no point in reading anything written by people who don't agree with him, because in his own little world, he is the ultimate authority on science, so the 99.9% of the scientific community that doesn't agree with his views are "evil morons", even though they have credentials and a lifetime's experience in their various fields. What credentials does our friend Daniel have? And just to clarify to the sheeple out there; good science is not about entertainment value, but proof. So if you dismiss theories, papers, or arguments on the basis that you find them "boring", you're a lazy, ignorant ass-hat. And regarding your claim of fossilized human footprints; humans (as in modern Homo sapiens) have existed for roughly 200,000 years [source]. So yeah, a fossilized foot-print doesn't deal some crippling blow to evolution. And [citation needed].
"Another obvious sign of the flood are the many crystals all over the world (crystals require liquid chemical mixing to form, and to form large and well formed shapes). It seems more reasonable that something like a quartz crystal would have more likely formed due to a large amount of chemicals in liquid mixing up and forming over a few years, rather than an 7000-15 billion years."
So every atheist or scientist who disagrees with you is evil and stupid, and yet you seem to be completely ignorant of what arguments geologists make for an old earth and biologists (and paleontologists) make for evolution. For starters; crystals are igneous rocks, which means they form in magma, or molten rock [source]. And the earth is roughly four billions years old, not fifteen billion, which is the age of the universe. That's a pretty sophomoric mistake, Mr. Omniscience. You would do well to take a geology class.
"The crystal evidence occurred to me on 4/24/2012, after one of my crystal digs of an unknown crystal type nearby, which today, on 4/25/2012, concluded was gypsum. When I read a few sites on it today, I came upon one that said mineralogists thought gypsum was the result of the ocean once being over landmasses. Do you think all these things happening in the order I described them are mere coincidence? I myself don’t think so."
Finding an unfamiliar crystal doesn't change the basic fact that igneous rocks form in magma, not water. And geology has already explained how and why the ocean was once over landmasses. Continental rifting is one.
"3) Bible internal consistency: this refers to the Bible saying things within itself that are in agreement, that don’t conflict/contradict. The Bible is a large book with many different claims and teachings, prophecies and laws and using various literary devices like symbolism and figures of speech. So then, it is not a simple book over all. It doesn’t even use periods or commas, making it even more complex. It also doesn’t use every single word to express a thought like is often done in English. You have to fill on the blanks using logical deduction and from knowledge of the language use of the Jews who spoke the language in ancient times (by reading other ancient writings that are more modern and translated into other languages) or from Jews who still speak the language. The Greek part of the Bible is not as hard to understand as Hebrew. But so, again, the Bible is not a simple book. The point is, humans are very prone to making mistakes, and so the Bible being as large and complicated as it is, should have major mistakes, especially since it was written by over 50 different people, and was a struggle to preserve over thousands of years of famines, wars, journeying and persecution. Yet, if you’re not blinded and spend enough time researching, you should find, like me, that the Bible has no contradictions. I’ve heard every supposed contradiction and even thought of ones that no atheist seemed to notice, but they always turned out to not be errors."
This sounds good in writing, but not if you actually crack open a bible and read it. For example; Isaiah 40:22 ""He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in." If the heavens are spread out like a tent, then the earth must be flat in this context. And then there's this here.If the bible contains no contradictions, why are there multiple versions of David and Goliath?
1 Samuel 17:50
King James Version (KJV)
50 So
David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and with a stone, and
smote the Philistine, and slew him; but there was no sword in the hand
of David.
51 Therefore David ran, and stood upon the Philistine, and took his sword, and drew it out of the sheath thereof, and slew him, and cut off his head therewith. And when the Philistines saw their champion was dead, they fled.
So did David kill him with the sling, or with the sword? And what about the gospels, with their omniscient third-person narratives and their conflicting accounts of who found the empty tomb first? According to Matthew 28;1, only Mary Magdalene and the other Mary. Mark 16;1 says Mary M., Mary (Jesus' mother), and Salome. Luke 23:55, 24:1 and 24:10 says "the women who had come with him out of Galilee." Among these women were "Mary Magdalene and Joanna and Mary the mother of James." John 20;1-4 says Mary Magdalene went alone, saw the moved stone, and then ran back and returned with Peter. So which version is correct? Or is the bible a "Choose Your Own Adventure" book?
"Here’s an example of 101 failed attempts to find contradictions in the Bible: http://gluefox.com/min/contrad.htm”>http://gluefox.com/min/contrad.htm"
Yeah, the problem being that I've only seen a mere handful of the ones in the link above on atheist websites. Not to mention the dreadful logic that they use. At one point, the author quotes some christian apologist saying that the bible couldn't have been written by bad men, since they would have been condemning their own behavior and sending themselves to hell. The stupidity of biblical inerrantists is pretty thick there. Religious leaders have been engaging in hypocritical behavior since the dawn of civilization. Look at Jimmy Swaggert, for crying out loud. Or Ted Haggerd. Or a whole plethora of hypocrites who privately indulged in the very "sins" they denounced daily on radio and television. As a social control, few forces are more useful than organized religion. That's why the GOP panders to the great unwashed masses of America, by promoting Christianity--the predominant religion in America-- in a frankly unconstitutional manner. Same thing with Saudi Arabia and Islam. Throw the people "spiritual support", so they don't notice that the education system is going down the toilet along with public welfare and human rights. So arguing that bad men couldn't have written the bible with the intention of misleading people is ridiculous. For all we know, they could have been the Bronze Age equivalent of L. Ron Hubbard or Jim Jones.
Note; I've skipped over the second site, since like the first one, it focuses on Muslim arguments against the bible, which are basically just hair-splitting since the bible and the Qur'an have similar sources.
"Alleged Contradictions in the Bible Answered"
This particular link comes from Contender Ministries,a fundamentalist group that endorses YEC (young earth creationism) and has various pages on non-christian religions. The problem with this page is that while I noticed a couple of misconceptions that some people do claim are contradictions in the bible, the major contradictions that skeptics bring up are not dealt with here. They also say nothing of inconsistency, like how the gospel writers knew what Jesus prayed in Gethsemane when they were supposedly asleep.
http://tektonics.org
Unfortunately, this site was hacked, so the link just takes you to their cluttered home page.
http://christianthinktank.com/topix.html
Interestingly, this page isn't a response to alleged contradictions in the bile, but a giant index of theological ad apologetic articles, some of which deal with contradictions, but for the most part focusing on orthodoxy.
"Another Christian also spent the time to refute some of the basic errors in the Skeptic’s Annotated Bible (more like “scribbled in rantings Bible”): http://muiczone.com/Article_View.cfm?ArticleID=42"
This site is the most amusing one yet. Why? Because in attempting to dispel the SAB, they pull out ten "discrepancies" and leave the other 99.9% untouched. The SAB isn't a single web page; it's the entire bible, with all the genocide, slavery, and inconsistency hi-lighted for your enjoyment. Let's see them respond to the whole thing chapter by chapter.
"The Most Common Philosophical and Moral Arguments Against the Bible by me"
Actually, this is the most funny link; most of his responses are to straw-men; For example, his first "argument" that he tackles is this; "All these arguments I’ve listen can be summarized as one argument, “All religions are wrong because they are bad,” or wrong because “God is bad.”"
Which of course, is complete bullshit. I've yet to see a single atheist argue against religion on the sole basis that "God is bad". The real argument behind skeptical logic is that religions are wrong because they cannot provide sufficient proof for their claims. In addition, he defends the Hebrews raping, killing, and plundering on the basis that since they were acting under command from God, everything they did was justified. Funny; Hitler claimed he was acting under orders from God as well. So I guess the Holocaust is justified. It's interesting that Calvinism essentially boils down to "might equals right". God created us, God is all-powerful, so if God comes down from heaven, kills your family in front of you and then proceeds to rape you, it's perfectly all right because he's the ultimate authority. Of course, John Calvin was a tyrant and a mass murderer himself, so it only makes sense for his conception of god to resemble his own authoritarian mindset.
"4) The Bible is full of prophecies, many of which came true. There are no provable failed prophecies."
Wrong. Matthew 16;28. And this.
"5) Anyone can see that reformed Baptists and Presbyterians are a peaceful and loving people, charitable to the poor and kind to those who hate them, risking their lives to better others. These are true Christians. No one can say, “The Bible doesn’t improve or help anyone to be happy, or to make them courageous” and that it simply makes people stupid mental slaves, when honestly judging these two groups. A person who makes such a judgment is ignoring what is easily seen and full of hate and pride. They are also ignoring history. It wasn’t these two groups that committed mass murders like the Catholics, Mormons and atheist groups have committed. This can be called the Christian testimony of changed lives."
First off, tell me how hard it is to find converts to any religion who claim that their experience made them better people. Muslims have them. So do Scientologists. But this can't be used as a rational argument for the veracity of a religion. Thanks to Knight's Calvinist views, he can set up a nice little No True Scotsman Fallacy. Crusades? Not True Christians(TM). Inquisitions? not True Christians(TM). John Calvin burning people to death for refusing to convert to Calvinism? Not... oh. The point; saying that peaceful people of your religion proves it is absurd. Every religion has members who are dedicated to peace and compassion, just as there are people without religion who are charitable to others. The only way to prove your religion is with evidence.
"6) The testimony of non-Christian lives: endless crime, wars, battles, fights, riots and on and on. Compare that to the lives of the RPs and RBs I mentioned. The Bible says you will find evil among those who reject him and his word, notice I said HIS WORD, and peace, in general, among those who love him and obey his word. It’s true, go find out for yourself if it’s not obvious to you."
I predict that tomorrow, a Jew will drop some money into a little box at the local grocery store for kids with cancer. Oh wow, I'm a prophet! Because making self-fulfilling prophecies is easy. Case in point; sometime within the next week, an ignorant creationist will reference the "Crocoduck" in a debate with a skeptic. Oh geez, I'm two for two.
"7) Go to icr.org, answersingenesis.org and creationwiki.com to look up the various evidences for the universe (not just Earth) being no older than 6,500 years. No one can say these sites ignore the truth, because they are filled with refutations of statements made by the most popular Christian-bashing individuals, books and websites."
This may be the funniest portion of Knight's post. One thing I find amusing is that these sites have no credibility with people who have actually gone to a good college and studied science. All three of them use straw-man arguments almost exclusively. Knight says that no one can doubt their truth, since they are filled "with refutations of statements made by the most popular Christian-bashing individuals, books and websites."
Even though those are straw-men. Check out Creation Wiki's page on vestigal forms to get an idea of what I'm talking. Or even better yet, take AIG's page on radio-metric dating and contrast it with articles written by real paleontologists and geologists.
"8) Is it too hard for anyone to spend time in a haunted house to verify if spirits exist? And think: if humans are just matter, with no spiritual component, not even a mind, then that would mean after 7 years, when your body has replaced every molecule, that you are no longer the same person."
Why do you ask an irrelevant question at the beginning of 8? This is colloquially referred to as a word salad. Secondly, where the hell did you get the "no mind" part from? I've yet to see any scientists claim that we have no mind. Furthermore, we do not change our molecules every seven years. I honestly don't know where you got that idea from. While our body does gradually replace cells over time, there is no body-wide purge of old cells (much less molecules) every seven years [source]. And even if it did, your DNA would remain the same, so you would still be the same person, legally and biologically. Apparently, creationists are incapable of telling the difference between fact and fiction.
"Therefore, when someone refers to something you did longer than 7 years ago, it’s not true, because that was a different human being entirely. Do you feel or reason that you really are a different person every 7 years? If that were true then you would not be responsible for crimes past 7 years ago, and no one could honestly charge you or anyone with a crime that long ago. Would you be willing to use that excuse in court? Could anyone in jail longer than 7 years say, “The molecules in my body have been completely replaced now that 7 years have passed, I’m a different person, let me go.”?"
Um... just out of curiosity, have you graduated high school yet?
"But if we have a soul that isn’t be replaced or destroyed, then you are the same person. And if souls exist, then that is one more evidence for the Bible being right about people always being responsible for their actions no matter how much time has passed, and having an eternal part of themselves (the soul and the spirit – but only those God forgave have a spirit according to the Bible – a spirit is basically like another body, which survives death, though there is nothing “in” it like the physical body, though it does have an emotional heart, mind and perhaps the soul sticks with it at death)."
So, got any hard proof for the soul?
" 9) Design. This is the most obvious evidence for a creator according to God’s word, but not just any design, beautiful design. You can see beautiful design in nature everywhere. Those who say it is random don’t know what they are talking about or are lying. Design is not random, there is no such thing as randomness."
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. You find nature beautiful, so therefore your god is real. So if I find Norway beautiful, can I use that as a argument for the existence of Thor? Or maybe I'll just stick with logic instead of fantasy. And by the way, if there is "no such thing as randomness", explain the existence of the /b/ section.
"Everything follows laws (and if not, then God’s commands). When a scientist says something is random, he’s appealing to a Random God of the Gaps (this is a twist on an insult phrase used against Christians, which is used to promote a myth about Christians simply saying, “God did it” to explain things)."
[citation needed]. Show me one instance of a genuine scientist saying that something happens randomly, ungoverned by natural law. And by the way, trying to argue that both sides use God of the Gaps doesn't lend your side any credence. And G.O.G.F. is not an "insult phrase used against Christians". When you attempt to argue for the existence of gods from a gap in knowledge--i.e., the cause of the Big Bang--you're committing that fallacy. And since pretty much all theists make that argument, instead of admitting that we simply don't know, it's a logical fallacy. If you don't like logic, then boo hoo. Your faith doesn't make you transcendent over reality, Daniel.
"When a scientist or anyone against Christians says a thing is random, they are explaining a thing away without any effort in in depth reasoning themselves. They are being lazy and denying reality, and denying what is already well known, and taught by scientists themselves: that everything goes according to physical laws."
Mm, I just love the smell of straw-men in the morning, don't you? [citation needed].
"Some will even say, whether contradictory or not, that randomness is one of the laws, in other words, that it is constrained too and cannot go beyond certain statistical probabilities. For example, no one can truthfully say that a person with their imperfect muscle control and imperfect senses can roll a dice so that four dots turn up 100 times in a row. A machine could do it, but not a human, unless they had been greatly enhanced or constrained by a machine. You can learn about this here: http://www.problemgambling.ca/EN/ResourcesForProfessionals/Pages/ProbabilityOddsandRandomChance.aspx"
You seem to be confusing randomness with probability, or chance. Here's a little science fun fact for you; random interactions happen all of the time, like when a meteor floating through space comes into contact with an event horizon and is sucked into a black hole. But this interaction, despite being "random" in the sense that no intelligence or sentient act led to it, is still governed by natural laws.The meteor can't magically float the other way when it starts approaching the event horizon because it is an inanimate object. Unless it comes into contact with a solid, physical object that nudges it in a different direction, it will eventually be swallowed by the black hole. Randomness doesn't invalidate natural laws anymore than a winning streak in Vegas cancels out the law of probability.
"Also consider that cryptologists have spent decades trying to figure out how to make a password or encryption method that is perfectly random, so that no one can break the code. However, that is not logically possible; if it was, than no password/decryption method would be able to decrypt the encryption. In conclusion: no one can rationally say that design, especially highly ordered and beautiful design, came about by randomness, without any thought being responsible for the beautiful thing they are seeing."
False analogy. For starters, human codes are products of design and can only come into being by intelligent design. However, the universe is not a line of coding on a sheet of paper or on a memory card. It is trillions of times larger and more complex than the most complicated computer system ever designed. And right now, as far as science is concerned, there is no need to invoke a creator to explain the universe. This doesn't mean that science won't find data pointing in that direction some day, but invoking your own personal god when we can't know for certain is a God of the Gaps fallacy.
"10) Miracles. There are many miracle stories, some can be attributed to demons, but the point is, “amazing supernatural events” happen."
So demons can cause miracles, and actually exist? [citation needed].
"One of the best documented positive type miracles is the “angel in the hospital” events. An angel healed a girl in a hospital in North Carolina, and on following days, healed more children. However that second fact is not well known. However, many “skeptics” have heard of just the one healing (and ignore it) and instead claim (without any evidence) that the angel that was seen was just a reflection. Amazing how all the sudden one day reflections show up shaped like angels lighting up a hallway that coincides (randomness again!) with kids being healed of extremely hard to heal sicknesses. Miracles can also be lives changed for the better (like I referred to in evidence 5)."
First off, [citation needed]. It is extremely negligent and lazy to reference a story as proof without providing a source for it, because then your readers have to take you on your word that it happened the way you say it did. Sloppy, sloppy. Secondly, a reflection in a hallway that looked like an angel? Weak. Really weak. What if they said it looked like Buddha? Or Elvis? Our eyes play tricks on us all of the time. Secondly, saying that kids getting over an illness for no apparent reason is a "miracle", is God of the Gaps fallacy. Are you a medical expert? Did you examine these kids for yourself? Have you researched other explanations of the event?
"11) There is evidence that Earth is at the center of the universe discovered using triangulation (and if so it, could help explain how aliens have apparently found this planet among countless others, if they had the technology to use a similar type of triangulation). Look up geocentrism in my journal or the Internet and read, watch and or listen to what Malcom Bowden teaches."
The universe is nearly, if not completely, infinite. Which means that it's impossible to know if we sit at it's exact center. Who's invalidating the law of probability now? And furthermore, modern cosmologists think that the universe is expanding, so geocentrism is unfalsifiable rubbish, just like Iintelligent Design. And by the way; your psychotic, rambling rant about Carl Sagan was the most stupid thing I've read in a while. And your argument against? That's he's "nerdy and pretentious". Nerdy? Seriously? What an imbecile. Go back to stealing lunch money from skinny math students, retard. What sophisticated arguments will you use next? "You're Fat!! You wear glasses!! My dad can beat up your dad!!" If anything, your site is just another picture-perfect example of the Dunning-Kruger Effect.
"Now, what excuse does anyone have? Can someone who isn’t hateful or mentally ill, having done the research on the topics mentioned here, or accepting the already obvious evidence stated here, say, “What evidence”? They may do so, and claim to be lovers of truth, logical, rational, or truth seekers, but they would be either blind, forgetful, or lying in extreme hatred."
The only one who fits every single negative attribute in that excerpt is you.Your anti-intellectual rants against science and common sense are filled to the brim with bare assertions and the most childish ad hom attacks I've seen a in a long time. Nerdy? Holy shit, what a great argument!! Why didn't Socrates think of that one?!
ADDENDUM, May 28th.
So Daniel has posted extra links in response to my rebuttal of his so-called "refutation". Since I've already covered the sections of his bible evidence for beginners post, I will simply address the new links one by one.
"If you research the news long enough, you will find that the numbers 4,000 and 5,000 (years old) comes up often. For example, it’s been estimated that there was a massive die off of coral reefs 5000 years ago, that in China an ancient advanced civilization died off 5000 years ago, that civization had a technological surge 4000 years ago, and on an on, which supports the Bible’s claim that there had been a world-wide kill off of most life on Earth’s surface which involved water as the main killing agent, and that mankind became technology advanced after the first 1000 years, but then was killed off almost entirely, and then after another 1000 years, had again become very advanced (lasting examples are evidences of extensive intercontinental travel, advanced ship-building in China, megaliths, various extremely advanced micro technologies evidence by jewelry, small machine parts, stories of ancient robots, flying vehicles, some models of which survived, and giant stones they moved and ancient stories of what seems to be devestating fighting between powerful and advanced civilizations, but apparently from diseases (various pestilences, war, and earthquakes, which the Bible prophecied would come, devastated itself)."
This entire paragraph falls apart for one reason; [citation needed]. A technological surge 4,000 years ago? Ancient robots? Really? Something tells me that if I made a preposterous, bullshit claim--like, "14th Century Alchemists Perfect Laser-Guided Missiles"--Daniel wouldn't even care. It's also funny how he mentions a coral die-off 5,000 years ago (with no citation); if the great flood really happened, one wonders how any corals, or any kind of sea life at all could have survived in anoxic mud. After all, don't creationists claim that the flood is what deposited the entire geologic column at one time? So how, pray, does a whale breathe mud and debris? Eh? And that last bit about the bible foretelling war, disease, and natural disasters is especially stupid. Remember what I said earlier about self-fulfilling prophecies? If I predicted that there's going to terrible earthquakes in Japan sometime in the future, nobody in their right mind would take me seriously. Japan has been suffering earthquakes for thousands of years. And yet, when the bible predicts war and pestilence, all the religious think it's a genuine prophecy, when anyone could say the same thing. It's not like war is in danger of being discarded by humanity anytime soon.
Various Findings That Contradict Big Bang-Evolution Theory Documented By Prof. William Corliss
This link is interesting because it never provides concrete facts, but conjecture. To see for yourself, click on the link and type "big bang" in the search box at the top. The most ridiculous part is where they try to argue against the BB for "philosophical reasons", another way of saying, "if it doesn't cater to our beliefs, it's wrong". Science is science, kiddies; philosophy doesn't change cold, hard fact.
The Cave Man Myth
This site is great. As an example of sourceless pseudo-science, few sites I've seen rival this one. It's funny how he talks about the discovery that Neanderthals didn't look very different from modern humans as if this is a great revelation. From this, he goes on a rebuttal of evolution, which fails since he literally does not have a single citation anywhere. He also fails to mention other earlier hominids that fit nicely with evolution's prediction of what we would find as we progressed upwards through the column, but runs contrary to creationist claims. Gee, how convenient for him.
Advanced Cities That Flooded or Sank Underwater
Unlike the anti-science rubbish in the last link, this one actually deals with fact (to a certain extent). What's stupid is that from the title of the article, there's an unspoken assumption that an ancient city's remains found underwater is proof for Noah's Flood--which like saying that finding a Roman nail in Israel proves that Jesus was real. Continental rifting, anyone? And the best part is that there's no evidence for this city being "advanced"--all they've found so far are megaliths with primitive symbols and carvings. Hardly indicative of wondrous technology. Nowhere does this site probe alternative explanations, or provide citations of any kind (which automatically discredits them). All they offer is speculation and bare assertions. A true YEC web site through and through.
Ancient Nuclear Technology
This title alone speaks for itself. And no citations, so yeah, you really have to be one gullible sheep to swallow a word of this crap. Hell, it even mentions aliens, for crying out loud. What's next? A consortium between Bigfoot and the Illuminati to sap our precious bodily fluids?
The Golden Ratio: Fibonacci
This link is an article from the Institute for Creation Research, and tries to interpret design from numbers, shapes, and patterns. Basically, just more of the same stuff that goes under "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder". We're here, and certain numbers and patterns are repeated in nature, so gawd musta done it. Personal interpretation does not equate evidence folks; a cloud that looks like a dragon to you doesn't mean that dragons are real. And of course, no mention of the fossil record or the emergence of new species that have been observed by scientists. Example; new species of mice [source].
Miller-Urey/Electro-chemical Abiogensis Experiment Disproved
Actually, the title, like everything else at AIG, is a lie. Why? Because contrary to AIG's claim that the idea of an anoxic atmosphere is an "assumption", geologists have proven it. The period was the Archean eon. The sedimentary rocks from this period are black or dark, indicating little or no oxygen.
Thermodynamics of Living Systems
Definitely one of the weaker attempts to debunk evolution without ever touching the physical evidence.The first real problem is that the author is using the Second Law of Thermodynamics to prove that the first life could not have formed by itself. And yet, this doesn't even touch Darwin's theory. The origins of life are the purview of abiogenesis, not evolution, which explains biological diversity and speciation, not the origins of life itself.
Ten Reasons Evolution is Wrong
This site is pretty retarded by any definition. Not as bad as that "ancient nuclear tech" link, but still pretty bad. Let's start with this author's perception of Darwin's theory; "Darwin believed in the idea that variations caused by environment could be inherited. Thus the giraffe’s long neck was a result of the “inherited effects of the increased use of parts”. The Origin of Species, 6th ed, London 1902, p 278. Darwin believed that if parent giraffes strained their necks to reach the top leaves then the progeny would inherit longer necks." That quote was clearly taken out of context. Natural selection states that desirable traits--those that aid survival--will be passed on. However, this does not arise from "increased use of parts". That idea came from Lamark, and was an early attempt to explain the changes that scientists observed in the fossil record [source]. And of course, as we've come to expect from creationist sites, not a single peer-approved article is cited, so this entire site is just baseless speculation and outright lies. Oh, and he tries to use the so-called "Cambrian Explosion" as an argument against TOE; stupidity in action.
Lava Dome at Mount St Helens Debunks Radio-Dating Methods
This argument falls apart when you consider AIG's beef with radiometric dating; their claim that in order to calculate the amount of daughter rock, you must make an assumption. If this is the case, why do the vast, overwhelming majority of tests done provide consistent and congruent dates? [source]. You can also find more on the accuracy of radiometric dating here.
The Big Bang Theory Collapses
Yet another argument against the BB, even though this discovery could be interpreted as the moment of creation by the religious. Because my knowledge of astronomy is rudimentary, I won't attempt to answer this link, or cop out by countering with a link to website defending the BB. If anyone who knows more about the subject can provide relevant information, feel free to leave a comment.
No Fruit Fly Evolution Even after 600 Generations
This is easily the most retarded article I've ever seen from ICR. " But where is the experimental evidence? None exists in the literature claiming that one species has been shown to evolve into another. Bacteria, the simplest form of independent life, are ideal for this kind of study, with generation times of 20 to 30 minutes, and populations achieved after 18 hours. But throughout 150 years of the science of bacteriology, there is no evidence that one species of bacteria has changed into another, in spite of the fact that populations have been exposed to potent chemical and physical mutagens and that, uniquely, bacteria possess extrachromosomal, transmissible plasmids. Since there is no evidence for species changes between the simplest forms of unicellular life, it is not surprising that there is no evidence for evolution from prokaryotic to eukaryotic cells, let alone throughout the whole array of higher multicellular organisms.4"
Notice their blanket denial; "there is no evidence that one species of bacteria has changed into another". Um, nylon-eating bacteria, anyone? How about Richard Lenski's E. Coli experiment, which creationists seem to be universally ignorant of? Likewise, they fail to mention new species of mice that has developed, and perhaps the most damning evidence of macro-evolution ever found; Eurycea rathbuni. Obviously, this animal adapted to it's environment. If vestigial forms don't exist, then why does the salamander still have it's useless eyes? Eh? And then there's this; "The UCI scientists compared the DNA sequences affecting fruit fly growth and longevity between the two groups. After the equivalent of 12,000 years of human evolution, the fruit flies showed surprisingly few differences." "Few differences"; and yet the name of the article is "No Fruit Fly Evolution after 600 Generations". Double-speak. And what's even more absurd is ICR's assertion that this refutes evolution, when it's not unheard of for some species to go without change for a long periods of time. Major adaptations only occur when there is a high selective pressure on the organisms to adapt or die; under optimal conditions, however, it will either happen slowly or not until pressure arises from the environment. So if you have little to no idea of how natural selection works, this article seems factual; but not in light of knowledge.
After this, he provides three links to Creation Wiki, AIG, and ICR concerning "living fossils". Basically, they try to disprove evolution by pointing out species or genus groups that date back millions of years. The mentally retarded argument being that if evolution is true, why haven't there been major changes in these organisms in the last several millions years? This is why creationists are at the bottom of the science bucket; their refusal to educate themselves over what evolution really is renders the majority of their arguments as gibberish. As I pointed out above, evolution isn't magic, or something that happens randomly; it is a response to the environment, an adaptation to outside stimuli. So if an organism evolves to a form that is well-suited, and no significant climate change occurs, or sexual pressures, that particular genus, family, etc., may not shows significant changes for millions of years. Perhaps if Daniel took the time to learn something and actually write original arguments of his own instead of just linking to a bunch of bullshit conspiracy sites, he might be taken a bit more seriously by skeptics.
And then he goes on to list several books cataloging outdated scientific theories (including one claiming that string theory has been refuted), perhaps in the hopes that pointing out science's self-correcting mechanism to uneducated readers will make doubt the value of scientific research. Of course, some of them are obviously science-denier books with the assumption that since science changes it's mind, it's somehow subjective or untrustworthy. But others appear to be genuine efforts to record junk ideas for posterity. After the books, he lists several off-site links (surprise, surprise) to crazy conspiracy sites picking bones with Einstein's physics, the speed of light, and geocentrism. Because I've crushed enough propaganda today, I'll just take care of the geocentrism and call it a day.
http://www.allnewuniverse.com/Center-by-Triangulation.pdf
This is one of the most spaced-out pdfs I've ever seen. While it does contain a fair amount of crazy, one wonders why Daniel used it since the author clearly accepts both the Big Bang and an old universe. My guess is that his mind is too fried by faith to notice a bit of cognitive dissonance like that. But in any case, this link is based upon assumptions that our line of sight extending beyond is indicative of a position merely 60 million light-years from the epicenter of the BB. The problem is that as the author admits on the third slide, the physics of light restrict our view of the surrounding universe, so triangulation is impossible without a point of reference far away. Secondly, there are no citations for merely of the author's more startling claims.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYFqeuV_F3U
This is the most retarded attempt to prove geocentrism in history. According to this video, earth is in the center of the visible universe.
...
.....
Just let that sink in for a moment.
His last comment on the subjects prove that he never got through grade school;
" Earth is even in the center of the solar system".
Yep. He honestly doesn't know that the earth is in orbit around the sun. As Darth Vader might say, the Stupid is strong with this one.
Evidence of Geocentrism
If you feel like punishing yourself, watch this video. It's sad. How sad? Really sad. Here's what YouTube poster Wordavee1 had to say;
"So you don't know anything about about astronomy, cosmology?
1 Samuel 17:51
King James Version (KJV)
51 Therefore David ran, and stood upon the Philistine, and took his sword, and drew it out of the sheath thereof, and slew him, and cut off his head therewith. And when the Philistines saw their champion was dead, they fled.
So did David kill him with the sling, or with the sword? And what about the gospels, with their omniscient third-person narratives and their conflicting accounts of who found the empty tomb first? According to Matthew 28;1, only Mary Magdalene and the other Mary. Mark 16;1 says Mary M., Mary (Jesus' mother), and Salome. Luke 23:55, 24:1 and 24:10 says "the women who had come with him out of Galilee." Among these women were "Mary Magdalene and Joanna and Mary the mother of James." John 20;1-4 says Mary Magdalene went alone, saw the moved stone, and then ran back and returned with Peter. So which version is correct? Or is the bible a "Choose Your Own Adventure" book?
"Here’s an example of 101 failed attempts to find contradictions in the Bible: http://gluefox.com/min/contrad.htm”>http://gluefox.com/min/contrad.htm"
Yeah, the problem being that I've only seen a mere handful of the ones in the link above on atheist websites. Not to mention the dreadful logic that they use. At one point, the author quotes some christian apologist saying that the bible couldn't have been written by bad men, since they would have been condemning their own behavior and sending themselves to hell. The stupidity of biblical inerrantists is pretty thick there. Religious leaders have been engaging in hypocritical behavior since the dawn of civilization. Look at Jimmy Swaggert, for crying out loud. Or Ted Haggerd. Or a whole plethora of hypocrites who privately indulged in the very "sins" they denounced daily on radio and television. As a social control, few forces are more useful than organized religion. That's why the GOP panders to the great unwashed masses of America, by promoting Christianity--the predominant religion in America-- in a frankly unconstitutional manner. Same thing with Saudi Arabia and Islam. Throw the people "spiritual support", so they don't notice that the education system is going down the toilet along with public welfare and human rights. So arguing that bad men couldn't have written the bible with the intention of misleading people is ridiculous. For all we know, they could have been the Bronze Age equivalent of L. Ron Hubbard or Jim Jones.
Note; I've skipped over the second site, since like the first one, it focuses on Muslim arguments against the bible, which are basically just hair-splitting since the bible and the Qur'an have similar sources.
"Alleged Contradictions in the Bible Answered"
This particular link comes from Contender Ministries,a fundamentalist group that endorses YEC (young earth creationism) and has various pages on non-christian religions. The problem with this page is that while I noticed a couple of misconceptions that some people do claim are contradictions in the bible, the major contradictions that skeptics bring up are not dealt with here. They also say nothing of inconsistency, like how the gospel writers knew what Jesus prayed in Gethsemane when they were supposedly asleep.
http://tektonics.org
Unfortunately, this site was hacked, so the link just takes you to their cluttered home page.
http://christianthinktank.com/topix.html
Interestingly, this page isn't a response to alleged contradictions in the bile, but a giant index of theological ad apologetic articles, some of which deal with contradictions, but for the most part focusing on orthodoxy.
"Another Christian also spent the time to refute some of the basic errors in the Skeptic’s Annotated Bible (more like “scribbled in rantings Bible”): http://muiczone.com/Article_View.cfm?ArticleID=42"
This site is the most amusing one yet. Why? Because in attempting to dispel the SAB, they pull out ten "discrepancies" and leave the other 99.9% untouched. The SAB isn't a single web page; it's the entire bible, with all the genocide, slavery, and inconsistency hi-lighted for your enjoyment. Let's see them respond to the whole thing chapter by chapter.
"The Most Common Philosophical and Moral Arguments Against the Bible by me"
Actually, this is the most funny link; most of his responses are to straw-men; For example, his first "argument" that he tackles is this; "All these arguments I’ve listen can be summarized as one argument, “All religions are wrong because they are bad,” or wrong because “God is bad.”"
Which of course, is complete bullshit. I've yet to see a single atheist argue against religion on the sole basis that "God is bad". The real argument behind skeptical logic is that religions are wrong because they cannot provide sufficient proof for their claims. In addition, he defends the Hebrews raping, killing, and plundering on the basis that since they were acting under command from God, everything they did was justified. Funny; Hitler claimed he was acting under orders from God as well. So I guess the Holocaust is justified. It's interesting that Calvinism essentially boils down to "might equals right". God created us, God is all-powerful, so if God comes down from heaven, kills your family in front of you and then proceeds to rape you, it's perfectly all right because he's the ultimate authority. Of course, John Calvin was a tyrant and a mass murderer himself, so it only makes sense for his conception of god to resemble his own authoritarian mindset.
"4) The Bible is full of prophecies, many of which came true. There are no provable failed prophecies."
Wrong. Matthew 16;28. And this.
"5) Anyone can see that reformed Baptists and Presbyterians are a peaceful and loving people, charitable to the poor and kind to those who hate them, risking their lives to better others. These are true Christians. No one can say, “The Bible doesn’t improve or help anyone to be happy, or to make them courageous” and that it simply makes people stupid mental slaves, when honestly judging these two groups. A person who makes such a judgment is ignoring what is easily seen and full of hate and pride. They are also ignoring history. It wasn’t these two groups that committed mass murders like the Catholics, Mormons and atheist groups have committed. This can be called the Christian testimony of changed lives."
First off, tell me how hard it is to find converts to any religion who claim that their experience made them better people. Muslims have them. So do Scientologists. But this can't be used as a rational argument for the veracity of a religion. Thanks to Knight's Calvinist views, he can set up a nice little No True Scotsman Fallacy. Crusades? Not True Christians(TM). Inquisitions? not True Christians(TM). John Calvin burning people to death for refusing to convert to Calvinism? Not... oh. The point; saying that peaceful people of your religion proves it is absurd. Every religion has members who are dedicated to peace and compassion, just as there are people without religion who are charitable to others. The only way to prove your religion is with evidence.
"6) The testimony of non-Christian lives: endless crime, wars, battles, fights, riots and on and on. Compare that to the lives of the RPs and RBs I mentioned. The Bible says you will find evil among those who reject him and his word, notice I said HIS WORD, and peace, in general, among those who love him and obey his word. It’s true, go find out for yourself if it’s not obvious to you."
I predict that tomorrow, a Jew will drop some money into a little box at the local grocery store for kids with cancer. Oh wow, I'm a prophet! Because making self-fulfilling prophecies is easy. Case in point; sometime within the next week, an ignorant creationist will reference the "Crocoduck" in a debate with a skeptic. Oh geez, I'm two for two.
"7) Go to icr.org, answersingenesis.org and creationwiki.com to look up the various evidences for the universe (not just Earth) being no older than 6,500 years. No one can say these sites ignore the truth, because they are filled with refutations of statements made by the most popular Christian-bashing individuals, books and websites."
This may be the funniest portion of Knight's post. One thing I find amusing is that these sites have no credibility with people who have actually gone to a good college and studied science. All three of them use straw-man arguments almost exclusively. Knight says that no one can doubt their truth, since they are filled "with refutations of statements made by the most popular Christian-bashing individuals, books and websites."
Even though those are straw-men. Check out Creation Wiki's page on vestigal forms to get an idea of what I'm talking. Or even better yet, take AIG's page on radio-metric dating and contrast it with articles written by real paleontologists and geologists.
"8) Is it too hard for anyone to spend time in a haunted house to verify if spirits exist? And think: if humans are just matter, with no spiritual component, not even a mind, then that would mean after 7 years, when your body has replaced every molecule, that you are no longer the same person."
Why do you ask an irrelevant question at the beginning of 8? This is colloquially referred to as a word salad. Secondly, where the hell did you get the "no mind" part from? I've yet to see any scientists claim that we have no mind. Furthermore, we do not change our molecules every seven years. I honestly don't know where you got that idea from. While our body does gradually replace cells over time, there is no body-wide purge of old cells (much less molecules) every seven years [source]. And even if it did, your DNA would remain the same, so you would still be the same person, legally and biologically. Apparently, creationists are incapable of telling the difference between fact and fiction.
"Therefore, when someone refers to something you did longer than 7 years ago, it’s not true, because that was a different human being entirely. Do you feel or reason that you really are a different person every 7 years? If that were true then you would not be responsible for crimes past 7 years ago, and no one could honestly charge you or anyone with a crime that long ago. Would you be willing to use that excuse in court? Could anyone in jail longer than 7 years say, “The molecules in my body have been completely replaced now that 7 years have passed, I’m a different person, let me go.”?"
Um... just out of curiosity, have you graduated high school yet?
"But if we have a soul that isn’t be replaced or destroyed, then you are the same person. And if souls exist, then that is one more evidence for the Bible being right about people always being responsible for their actions no matter how much time has passed, and having an eternal part of themselves (the soul and the spirit – but only those God forgave have a spirit according to the Bible – a spirit is basically like another body, which survives death, though there is nothing “in” it like the physical body, though it does have an emotional heart, mind and perhaps the soul sticks with it at death)."
So, got any hard proof for the soul?
" 9) Design. This is the most obvious evidence for a creator according to God’s word, but not just any design, beautiful design. You can see beautiful design in nature everywhere. Those who say it is random don’t know what they are talking about or are lying. Design is not random, there is no such thing as randomness."
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. You find nature beautiful, so therefore your god is real. So if I find Norway beautiful, can I use that as a argument for the existence of Thor? Or maybe I'll just stick with logic instead of fantasy. And by the way, if there is "no such thing as randomness", explain the existence of the /b/ section.
"Everything follows laws (and if not, then God’s commands). When a scientist says something is random, he’s appealing to a Random God of the Gaps (this is a twist on an insult phrase used against Christians, which is used to promote a myth about Christians simply saying, “God did it” to explain things)."
[citation needed]. Show me one instance of a genuine scientist saying that something happens randomly, ungoverned by natural law. And by the way, trying to argue that both sides use God of the Gaps doesn't lend your side any credence. And G.O.G.F. is not an "insult phrase used against Christians". When you attempt to argue for the existence of gods from a gap in knowledge--i.e., the cause of the Big Bang--you're committing that fallacy. And since pretty much all theists make that argument, instead of admitting that we simply don't know, it's a logical fallacy. If you don't like logic, then boo hoo. Your faith doesn't make you transcendent over reality, Daniel.
"When a scientist or anyone against Christians says a thing is random, they are explaining a thing away without any effort in in depth reasoning themselves. They are being lazy and denying reality, and denying what is already well known, and taught by scientists themselves: that everything goes according to physical laws."
Mm, I just love the smell of straw-men in the morning, don't you? [citation needed].
"Some will even say, whether contradictory or not, that randomness is one of the laws, in other words, that it is constrained too and cannot go beyond certain statistical probabilities. For example, no one can truthfully say that a person with their imperfect muscle control and imperfect senses can roll a dice so that four dots turn up 100 times in a row. A machine could do it, but not a human, unless they had been greatly enhanced or constrained by a machine. You can learn about this here: http://www.problemgambling.ca/EN/ResourcesForProfessionals/Pages/ProbabilityOddsandRandomChance.aspx"
You seem to be confusing randomness with probability, or chance. Here's a little science fun fact for you; random interactions happen all of the time, like when a meteor floating through space comes into contact with an event horizon and is sucked into a black hole. But this interaction, despite being "random" in the sense that no intelligence or sentient act led to it, is still governed by natural laws.The meteor can't magically float the other way when it starts approaching the event horizon because it is an inanimate object. Unless it comes into contact with a solid, physical object that nudges it in a different direction, it will eventually be swallowed by the black hole. Randomness doesn't invalidate natural laws anymore than a winning streak in Vegas cancels out the law of probability.
"Also consider that cryptologists have spent decades trying to figure out how to make a password or encryption method that is perfectly random, so that no one can break the code. However, that is not logically possible; if it was, than no password/decryption method would be able to decrypt the encryption. In conclusion: no one can rationally say that design, especially highly ordered and beautiful design, came about by randomness, without any thought being responsible for the beautiful thing they are seeing."
False analogy. For starters, human codes are products of design and can only come into being by intelligent design. However, the universe is not a line of coding on a sheet of paper or on a memory card. It is trillions of times larger and more complex than the most complicated computer system ever designed. And right now, as far as science is concerned, there is no need to invoke a creator to explain the universe. This doesn't mean that science won't find data pointing in that direction some day, but invoking your own personal god when we can't know for certain is a God of the Gaps fallacy.
"10) Miracles. There are many miracle stories, some can be attributed to demons, but the point is, “amazing supernatural events” happen."
So demons can cause miracles, and actually exist? [citation needed].
"One of the best documented positive type miracles is the “angel in the hospital” events. An angel healed a girl in a hospital in North Carolina, and on following days, healed more children. However that second fact is not well known. However, many “skeptics” have heard of just the one healing (and ignore it) and instead claim (without any evidence) that the angel that was seen was just a reflection. Amazing how all the sudden one day reflections show up shaped like angels lighting up a hallway that coincides (randomness again!) with kids being healed of extremely hard to heal sicknesses. Miracles can also be lives changed for the better (like I referred to in evidence 5)."
First off, [citation needed]. It is extremely negligent and lazy to reference a story as proof without providing a source for it, because then your readers have to take you on your word that it happened the way you say it did. Sloppy, sloppy. Secondly, a reflection in a hallway that looked like an angel? Weak. Really weak. What if they said it looked like Buddha? Or Elvis? Our eyes play tricks on us all of the time. Secondly, saying that kids getting over an illness for no apparent reason is a "miracle", is God of the Gaps fallacy. Are you a medical expert? Did you examine these kids for yourself? Have you researched other explanations of the event?
"11) There is evidence that Earth is at the center of the universe discovered using triangulation (and if so it, could help explain how aliens have apparently found this planet among countless others, if they had the technology to use a similar type of triangulation). Look up geocentrism in my journal or the Internet and read, watch and or listen to what Malcom Bowden teaches."
The universe is nearly, if not completely, infinite. Which means that it's impossible to know if we sit at it's exact center. Who's invalidating the law of probability now? And furthermore, modern cosmologists think that the universe is expanding, so geocentrism is unfalsifiable rubbish, just like Iintelligent Design. And by the way; your psychotic, rambling rant about Carl Sagan was the most stupid thing I've read in a while. And your argument against? That's he's "nerdy and pretentious". Nerdy? Seriously? What an imbecile. Go back to stealing lunch money from skinny math students, retard. What sophisticated arguments will you use next? "You're Fat!! You wear glasses!! My dad can beat up your dad!!" If anything, your site is just another picture-perfect example of the Dunning-Kruger Effect.
"Now, what excuse does anyone have? Can someone who isn’t hateful or mentally ill, having done the research on the topics mentioned here, or accepting the already obvious evidence stated here, say, “What evidence”? They may do so, and claim to be lovers of truth, logical, rational, or truth seekers, but they would be either blind, forgetful, or lying in extreme hatred."
The only one who fits every single negative attribute in that excerpt is you.Your anti-intellectual rants against science and common sense are filled to the brim with bare assertions and the most childish ad hom attacks I've seen a in a long time. Nerdy? Holy shit, what a great argument!! Why didn't Socrates think of that one?!
ADDENDUM, May 28th.
So Daniel has posted extra links in response to my rebuttal of his so-called "refutation". Since I've already covered the sections of his bible evidence for beginners post, I will simply address the new links one by one.
"If you research the news long enough, you will find that the numbers 4,000 and 5,000 (years old) comes up often. For example, it’s been estimated that there was a massive die off of coral reefs 5000 years ago, that in China an ancient advanced civilization died off 5000 years ago, that civization had a technological surge 4000 years ago, and on an on, which supports the Bible’s claim that there had been a world-wide kill off of most life on Earth’s surface which involved water as the main killing agent, and that mankind became technology advanced after the first 1000 years, but then was killed off almost entirely, and then after another 1000 years, had again become very advanced (lasting examples are evidences of extensive intercontinental travel, advanced ship-building in China, megaliths, various extremely advanced micro technologies evidence by jewelry, small machine parts, stories of ancient robots, flying vehicles, some models of which survived, and giant stones they moved and ancient stories of what seems to be devestating fighting between powerful and advanced civilizations, but apparently from diseases (various pestilences, war, and earthquakes, which the Bible prophecied would come, devastated itself)."
This entire paragraph falls apart for one reason; [citation needed]. A technological surge 4,000 years ago? Ancient robots? Really? Something tells me that if I made a preposterous, bullshit claim--like, "14th Century Alchemists Perfect Laser-Guided Missiles"--Daniel wouldn't even care. It's also funny how he mentions a coral die-off 5,000 years ago (with no citation); if the great flood really happened, one wonders how any corals, or any kind of sea life at all could have survived in anoxic mud. After all, don't creationists claim that the flood is what deposited the entire geologic column at one time? So how, pray, does a whale breathe mud and debris? Eh? And that last bit about the bible foretelling war, disease, and natural disasters is especially stupid. Remember what I said earlier about self-fulfilling prophecies? If I predicted that there's going to terrible earthquakes in Japan sometime in the future, nobody in their right mind would take me seriously. Japan has been suffering earthquakes for thousands of years. And yet, when the bible predicts war and pestilence, all the religious think it's a genuine prophecy, when anyone could say the same thing. It's not like war is in danger of being discarded by humanity anytime soon.
Various Findings That Contradict Big Bang-Evolution Theory Documented By Prof. William Corliss
This link is interesting because it never provides concrete facts, but conjecture. To see for yourself, click on the link and type "big bang" in the search box at the top. The most ridiculous part is where they try to argue against the BB for "philosophical reasons", another way of saying, "if it doesn't cater to our beliefs, it's wrong". Science is science, kiddies; philosophy doesn't change cold, hard fact.
The Cave Man Myth
This site is great. As an example of sourceless pseudo-science, few sites I've seen rival this one. It's funny how he talks about the discovery that Neanderthals didn't look very different from modern humans as if this is a great revelation. From this, he goes on a rebuttal of evolution, which fails since he literally does not have a single citation anywhere. He also fails to mention other earlier hominids that fit nicely with evolution's prediction of what we would find as we progressed upwards through the column, but runs contrary to creationist claims. Gee, how convenient for him.
Advanced Cities That Flooded or Sank Underwater
Unlike the anti-science rubbish in the last link, this one actually deals with fact (to a certain extent). What's stupid is that from the title of the article, there's an unspoken assumption that an ancient city's remains found underwater is proof for Noah's Flood--which like saying that finding a Roman nail in Israel proves that Jesus was real. Continental rifting, anyone? And the best part is that there's no evidence for this city being "advanced"--all they've found so far are megaliths with primitive symbols and carvings. Hardly indicative of wondrous technology. Nowhere does this site probe alternative explanations, or provide citations of any kind (which automatically discredits them). All they offer is speculation and bare assertions. A true YEC web site through and through.
Ancient Nuclear Technology
This title alone speaks for itself. And no citations, so yeah, you really have to be one gullible sheep to swallow a word of this crap. Hell, it even mentions aliens, for crying out loud. What's next? A consortium between Bigfoot and the Illuminati to sap our precious bodily fluids?
The Golden Ratio: Fibonacci
This link is an article from the Institute for Creation Research, and tries to interpret design from numbers, shapes, and patterns. Basically, just more of the same stuff that goes under "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder". We're here, and certain numbers and patterns are repeated in nature, so gawd musta done it. Personal interpretation does not equate evidence folks; a cloud that looks like a dragon to you doesn't mean that dragons are real. And of course, no mention of the fossil record or the emergence of new species that have been observed by scientists. Example; new species of mice [source].
Miller-Urey/Electro-chemical Abiogensis Experiment Disproved
Actually, the title, like everything else at AIG, is a lie. Why? Because contrary to AIG's claim that the idea of an anoxic atmosphere is an "assumption", geologists have proven it. The period was the Archean eon. The sedimentary rocks from this period are black or dark, indicating little or no oxygen.
Thermodynamics of Living Systems
Definitely one of the weaker attempts to debunk evolution without ever touching the physical evidence.The first real problem is that the author is using the Second Law of Thermodynamics to prove that the first life could not have formed by itself. And yet, this doesn't even touch Darwin's theory. The origins of life are the purview of abiogenesis, not evolution, which explains biological diversity and speciation, not the origins of life itself.
Ten Reasons Evolution is Wrong
This site is pretty retarded by any definition. Not as bad as that "ancient nuclear tech" link, but still pretty bad. Let's start with this author's perception of Darwin's theory; "Darwin believed in the idea that variations caused by environment could be inherited. Thus the giraffe’s long neck was a result of the “inherited effects of the increased use of parts”. The Origin of Species, 6th ed, London 1902, p 278. Darwin believed that if parent giraffes strained their necks to reach the top leaves then the progeny would inherit longer necks." That quote was clearly taken out of context. Natural selection states that desirable traits--those that aid survival--will be passed on. However, this does not arise from "increased use of parts". That idea came from Lamark, and was an early attempt to explain the changes that scientists observed in the fossil record [source]. And of course, as we've come to expect from creationist sites, not a single peer-approved article is cited, so this entire site is just baseless speculation and outright lies. Oh, and he tries to use the so-called "Cambrian Explosion" as an argument against TOE; stupidity in action.
Lava Dome at Mount St Helens Debunks Radio-Dating Methods
This argument falls apart when you consider AIG's beef with radiometric dating; their claim that in order to calculate the amount of daughter rock, you must make an assumption. If this is the case, why do the vast, overwhelming majority of tests done provide consistent and congruent dates? [source]. You can also find more on the accuracy of radiometric dating here.
The Big Bang Theory Collapses
Yet another argument against the BB, even though this discovery could be interpreted as the moment of creation by the religious. Because my knowledge of astronomy is rudimentary, I won't attempt to answer this link, or cop out by countering with a link to website defending the BB. If anyone who knows more about the subject can provide relevant information, feel free to leave a comment.
No Fruit Fly Evolution Even after 600 Generations
This is easily the most retarded article I've ever seen from ICR. " But where is the experimental evidence? None exists in the literature claiming that one species has been shown to evolve into another. Bacteria, the simplest form of independent life, are ideal for this kind of study, with generation times of 20 to 30 minutes, and populations achieved after 18 hours. But throughout 150 years of the science of bacteriology, there is no evidence that one species of bacteria has changed into another, in spite of the fact that populations have been exposed to potent chemical and physical mutagens and that, uniquely, bacteria possess extrachromosomal, transmissible plasmids. Since there is no evidence for species changes between the simplest forms of unicellular life, it is not surprising that there is no evidence for evolution from prokaryotic to eukaryotic cells, let alone throughout the whole array of higher multicellular organisms.4"
Notice their blanket denial; "there is no evidence that one species of bacteria has changed into another". Um, nylon-eating bacteria, anyone? How about Richard Lenski's E. Coli experiment, which creationists seem to be universally ignorant of? Likewise, they fail to mention new species of mice that has developed, and perhaps the most damning evidence of macro-evolution ever found; Eurycea rathbuni. Obviously, this animal adapted to it's environment. If vestigial forms don't exist, then why does the salamander still have it's useless eyes? Eh? And then there's this; "The UCI scientists compared the DNA sequences affecting fruit fly growth and longevity between the two groups. After the equivalent of 12,000 years of human evolution, the fruit flies showed surprisingly few differences." "Few differences"; and yet the name of the article is "No Fruit Fly Evolution after 600 Generations". Double-speak. And what's even more absurd is ICR's assertion that this refutes evolution, when it's not unheard of for some species to go without change for a long periods of time. Major adaptations only occur when there is a high selective pressure on the organisms to adapt or die; under optimal conditions, however, it will either happen slowly or not until pressure arises from the environment. So if you have little to no idea of how natural selection works, this article seems factual; but not in light of knowledge.
After this, he provides three links to Creation Wiki, AIG, and ICR concerning "living fossils". Basically, they try to disprove evolution by pointing out species or genus groups that date back millions of years. The mentally retarded argument being that if evolution is true, why haven't there been major changes in these organisms in the last several millions years? This is why creationists are at the bottom of the science bucket; their refusal to educate themselves over what evolution really is renders the majority of their arguments as gibberish. As I pointed out above, evolution isn't magic, or something that happens randomly; it is a response to the environment, an adaptation to outside stimuli. So if an organism evolves to a form that is well-suited, and no significant climate change occurs, or sexual pressures, that particular genus, family, etc., may not shows significant changes for millions of years. Perhaps if Daniel took the time to learn something and actually write original arguments of his own instead of just linking to a bunch of bullshit conspiracy sites, he might be taken a bit more seriously by skeptics.
And then he goes on to list several books cataloging outdated scientific theories (including one claiming that string theory has been refuted), perhaps in the hopes that pointing out science's self-correcting mechanism to uneducated readers will make doubt the value of scientific research. Of course, some of them are obviously science-denier books with the assumption that since science changes it's mind, it's somehow subjective or untrustworthy. But others appear to be genuine efforts to record junk ideas for posterity. After the books, he lists several off-site links (surprise, surprise) to crazy conspiracy sites picking bones with Einstein's physics, the speed of light, and geocentrism. Because I've crushed enough propaganda today, I'll just take care of the geocentrism and call it a day.
http://www.allnewuniverse.com/Center-by-Triangulation.pdf
This is one of the most spaced-out pdfs I've ever seen. While it does contain a fair amount of crazy, one wonders why Daniel used it since the author clearly accepts both the Big Bang and an old universe. My guess is that his mind is too fried by faith to notice a bit of cognitive dissonance like that. But in any case, this link is based upon assumptions that our line of sight extending beyond is indicative of a position merely 60 million light-years from the epicenter of the BB. The problem is that as the author admits on the third slide, the physics of light restrict our view of the surrounding universe, so triangulation is impossible without a point of reference far away. Secondly, there are no citations for merely of the author's more startling claims.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYFqeuV_F3U
This is the most retarded attempt to prove geocentrism in history. According to this video, earth is in the center of the visible universe.
...
.....
Just let that sink in for a moment.
His last comment on the subjects prove that he never got through grade school;
" Earth is even in the center of the solar system".
Yep. He honestly doesn't know that the earth is in orbit around the sun. As Darth Vader might say, the Stupid is strong with this one.
Evidence of Geocentrism
If you feel like punishing yourself, watch this video. It's sad. How sad? Really sad. Here's what YouTube poster Wordavee1 had to say;
"So you don't know anything about about astronomy, cosmology?
Saturday, April 28, 2012
AN EXAMPLE OF DELUSION
Recently, Lady Atheist published a link to an article that some idiot wrote for the Washington Times entitled, "Science and Common Sense Point to God". After I and several other posters refuted that claim, I got into a lengthy dialogue with an utterly deluded Christian who wrote several long, FSTDT-worthy comments claim that atheists were possessed by demons, and that is the only reason why we didn't believe in Cosmic Hebrew Hitler and his undead hippie son. After that, I found myself debating a creationist called Tim. Our debate was typical, really. He made ridiculous statements of child-like ignorance that would be laughed out of every reputable college in the civilized world, and cited AIG as the source of his "truth"(that, and Genesis). And so we went on, I crushing his ignorant claims, and he saying that Evolution (he made a point of capitalizing the word for some reason) was a religion, and had no evidence, and that the evolution of mice, viruses, and bacterial strains in the lab were merely "adaptations", oblivious of the fact that evolution's very definition is adaptations over time. To paraphrase Darth Vader, the Stupid was strong with this one. And yet, I find myself feeling more than a little sorry for Tim. His whole life, he's been brainwashed by adults who didn't know better, and has steadfastly ignored the evidence and clung to those beliefs like a child with a blanket. This is, creationism and religion in a nutshell.
"If there was a worldwide flood then one would expect to find billions of dead things buried in rock layers all over the earth; and that is exactly what is found."
So the flood happened numerous times throughout history? I thought you believed it only happened once. How else do you account for the layers of the geological column?
"Basic logic suggests to Creationists that the mountains were formed by tectonic movement during the year long flood event."
How? What kind of tectonic movements? What modern evidence supports this view?
"Thank you for calling me an "idiot". You sure know how to relate with people."
Your continued and willful ignorance of science is shameful. You can't even define the word "evolution" properly. If you don't want to be called an idiot, then stop behaving like one, and stop using logical fallacies in every other sentence, like appealing to authority, making straw-men, god of the gaps argument, argument from ignorance, self-referencing, and question-begging. This sums up every comment of yours that I've seen so far.
"My claim about the confusion of languages at Babel is based on the historical record of Genesis 10 and 11."
It is not historical unless you can provide strong evidence. Otherwise, you could argue that Achilles was indeed invincible down to the ankle based upon the Iliad. You are using the book to prove the book, a stupid, childish argument that only creationists make. You never really see actual scientists saying that evolution is true because a book they read said it's true, and yet what are you doing? Hmm? And evolution is the religion here? Hah!
"Now, you prove the record is wrong."
*sigh* You seem to resent being called an idiot, yet here you are, earning that title anew with every sentence. Burden of truth; the one who makes the claim backs it up, or he's wrong. Furthermore, that which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
"I will not resort to your attempted intimidation of me by calling you an idiot, however."
It wasn't "intimidation", although I'm certain that calling it such feeds your persecution complex. You arguments are no better than those of a child. Provide evidence, or admit to being deluded.
"It is not at all genetically impossible for three men and women to re-populate the earth. Prove your claim."
http://www.pnas.org/content/95/15/9047.full.pdf+html
"I already know where speech came from and then the various languages at Babel. man was able to speak and understand speech from the very beginning. Read Genesis 1-3."
Where is the archaeological evidence for these claims? What research backs it up?
"I know that humanity began about 4000 B.C. It is clear from the Scriptures."
http://anthro.palomar.edu/homo2/mod_homo_4.htm
http://humanorigins.si.edu/
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/species.html
Wrong.
"Answers in Genesis is an excellent source of information for inquirers. I was just at the museum. Excellent! You should visit. I did not expect you to agree with what they do. Duh! Of course not, you have a totally different belief system."
Evolution is not a belief system; it is a proven fact. Proof.
"So, your charges are really meaningless."
AIG makes baseless assertions about radiometric dating and once blatantly redefined the word "light-year" so they could lie to a nine-year old. My charges are accurate.
"So, what do you reference for what you believe?"
I don't "believe" anything. The sources for my acceptance of evolution are the fossil record, modern biology (including the E. Coli experiment I linked to), and geology. Basic logic says that life on earth wasn't created all at one time, otherwise the fossil record would be completely different from what it is today.
"I know some excellent geologists who believe in the global flood. Perhaps you should take a class from one of them."
Who are they? Where did they get their degrees? How do they explain the fossil record? How do they explain deposition? How do they explain flood tectonics? How do they explain radiometric dating? How do they explain the super-continents? And why don't you make your own arguments, instead of appealing to authority?
"I am not ignoring it; I just do not believe you have the knowledge and authority to be so dogmatic on this."
Dismissing an absurd story that has no evidence can only be called "dogmatic" by someone who is irrational. Am I also "dogmatic" in my dismissal of Holocaust-deniers?
"Just because you believe it's a myth; a myth it does not make."
Let me repeat for your benefit; that which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. Provide proof for your claims.
"I do not deny fossils at all, I just believe that most were laid down by the Flood in Noah's day. That's all."
And you have failed to provide any viable mechanism for the dispersal of the fossils in the strata.They are not random, that are laid out in a pattern of increasing diversity.
"Let all readers of this thread take note that when certain Evolutionists/atheists converses with those who do not agree with them they resort to calling them "stupid" or an "idiot" in order to intimidate the."
Have you provided any evidence for your claims? No. You just self-reference and say over and over that evolution is a religion, despite the fact that that idiotic claim has been proven wrong countless times. Your willful ignorance can only be called stupid. You have no logic, proof, or explanations; you wave your hands and say "God did it!", like that somehow proves your hypothesis. Anyone behaving like you at my college would be laughed out of it.
"because they know that the only proof they have is in their own, or others'. interpretation of evidence which is based upon their own belief system."
Wrong. Our interpretation is based upon common sense. Yours is based upon mythical presuppositions involving magic and gods. Evolution is observed in the lab all the time, and the wild as well, when mice adapt to pesticides. And only idiots called evolution a "belief system".
"What he means is that I will not accept his belief system (religion). So, he wants to call me names."
By calling evolution a religion, you admit to being a moron. Evolution has proof; all you have are baseless interpretations that rely upon wishful thinking and hand-waving. Still waiting for your explanation of the fossil record, Tim.
"Take note, Evolutionists have absolutely no proof that Man evolved from Apes."
You, sir, are a liar and an imbecile.
"There is no proof it happened and it is not happening now."
You've failed to explain the placement of fossils in the geologic column. And the fact that they have to update antibiotics for evolving bacterial infections proves that you are willfully ignorant; i.e., stupid.
"It exists only in the imagination, i.e. a fairy tale."
An apt description of creationism, Tim.
"Take note readers, Evolutionists/atheists do not like it when they are told that what they believe is no more than that, it's what they believe."
Obviously. Slimy, disingenuous lies meant to undermine scientific research is childish and pathetic, so naturally creationists do it all of the time.In the meanwhile, real scientists continue to find new transitional fossils, and observe species adapting before our eyes; while you people hide in caves and call it a religion.
"So, they take their ball and go home because you won't play by their rules."
When you refuse to acknowledge the legitimate research upon which TOE is founded, and display overwhelming ignorance of the scientific method, with only ancient Bronze Age myths to back it all up, there is no point in talking to you. Like your fellow idiot GoldenEagles, any attempt at a rational conversation with you is doomed from the start.
"I have seen this several times."
And you never learn anything from it. Why? Because you're dishonest. And as previously stated, a coward as well. I challenged you to come debate me here, but I suppose the odds of that ever happening are the same odds of creationists coming up with a viable model for flood tectonics, and how the fossil record was randomly arranged to look like 2 billion years of evolution had occurred.
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Geocentrism is stone age stuff, grow up."
The up-loader's response was just more science-denial;
"Thanks for your comment, but that sure is a lot of "ifs". But let's get real - you have no idea the true size of anything in the universe, nor the true distance, and neither does science. They CONSTANTLY rewrite their theories and even their "facts".
For a powerful example, go ahead and Google "Vast Solar Eruption Shocks NASA and Raises Doubts on Sun Theory"
Oh but wait... didn't science claim it as "fact" that the sun was over 1.4 x 10^18 km^3 in volume?"
So since science doesn't stay in stasis, it must be untrustworthy. Fuck-tard. Give it up, Daniel; your site is a pile of bullshit that doesn't come from you, since you're ignorant as shit over pretty much everything, but others whom you reference as authorities when most of them don't even have credentials in the fields they pontificate about.